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Mike

External


Since: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 3



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:54 pm
Post subject: "Big man on campus likely a woman"
Archived from groups: alt>feminism, others (more info?)

www.google.com News

Big man on campus likely a woman
By Amy Fagan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published March 27, 2007

Women's share of college enrollment is at an all-time high as
education researchers continue to debate what is causing the trend of
more women than men going to college, and what the future impact of
the trend could be.
"It is a topic of some conversation within the admissions
community, and they certainly are looking at it," said Barmak
Nassirian, associate executive director of the American Association of
Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. "I don't think we have
a proper understanding of what would be at the root."
"It's well-documented that there's a female majority on college
campuses," said Jacqueline King, director of the American Council on
Education's Center for Policy Analysis and author of a 2006 study on
the topic. "I think where there's not a consensus is why this is the
case."
Historically, more men than women have graduated college. In 1870,
the first year a national survey was conducted, 7,993 men and 1,378
women received bachelor's degrees. But by the 1980s, women were
outpacing men and that trend has continued through today, even though
overall numbers for both groups continue to rise.
In the 2003-04 school year, 595,425 men received bachelor's
degrees, compared with 804,117 women, according to the Department of
Education's National Center for Education Statistics. The department's
fall 2004 numbers show that 57.2 percent of college enrollees were
women -- the highest percentage ever.
The department estimates that by the time the 2013-14 school year
rolls around, women receiving degrees will outnumber men by more than
300,000.
"Every year, the situation gets worse and worse and worse," said
Tom Mortensen, a higher-education policy analyst who publishes
Postsecondary Education Opportunity newsletter and has beat the drums
on the issue since the 1990s.
"It's a very serious and long-standing problem, and there's no
solution in sight," said Christina Hoff Sommers, a resident scholar at
the conservative American Enterprise Institute and author of "The War
Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men."
Some, however, say the trend has been overblown and misunderstood.
Sara Mead, a senior policy analyst with the Education Sector, a
liberal think tank, said the public has wrongly been led to think that
boys are doing worse than girls.
"The rate at which men go to college has not fallen; women have
just increased their numbers more rapidly," she said. In a report
titled "The Truth About Boys and Girls," she says, "The idea that
women might actually surpass men in some areas ... seems hard for many
people to swallow. Thus, boys are routinely characterized as 'falling
behind' even as they improve in absolute terms."
Catherine Hill, director of research at the American Association
of University Women, agreed that gains for women shouldn't be read as
losses for men. "It's not a zero-sum game," she said.
Ms. Hill added that "there's a lot to celebrate" in the trend,
saying that not too long ago, it was rare to have women in certain
fields, like medicine, while today it's routine.
But the discussion of possible causes of and solutions for the
broader college gap between men and women continues. One possible
cause is that since the 1980s, some older women have gone back to
college to get degrees, said Ms. King. There is a degree of "pent-up
demand," Ms. Hill agreed.
Mr. Nassirian said some college admissions officers think the
problem stems primarily from shortcomings in the K-12 education
system, while other officers think the problem lies in colleges'
marketing and messaging -- that somehow boys are overlooked or
discouraged by the messages they receive from higher education. "My
guess is that a little of both would be the case," Mr. Nassirian
said.
Ms. King's 2006 study found the college gap is still the widest
between minority men and minority women -- leading some, like Ms.
Mead, to argue that if the word "crisis" is to be used, it should be
used for the plight of minority boys.
But Mrs. Sommers said problems for all boys begins in younger
grades. She said girls, on average, adapt better to school from the
early grades, traditional classrooms aren't set up to accommodate
boys' natural energy, and that, while state and federal efforts have
aggressively aimed to improve girls' performance in science and math,
there hasn't been an equal effort to help boys' in their weaker
subjects of reading and writing.
"All of the emphasis has been on girls. Boys were left on the back
burner," Mrs. Sommers said.
Judith Kleinfeld found the imbalance -- which is happening in
other Western industrialized countries, too -- so troubling that she
started the Boys Project, a coalition of scholars, educators and
nonprofit groups that tries to help engage and inspire boys at the
local, state and national levels. She said girls' surging college
success is important and welcomed, but it's also clearly time to
encourage boys to the same degree.
"Boys don't like school -- this is the root," she said.
Mrs. Sommers said if the trend continues, the result could be a
generation of poorly educated and unemployable boys facing a
generation of women who are considerably more educated, a situation
causing "all sorts of psychological ramifications."
Meanwhile, a few colleges are taking specific steps. Among them,
St. Petersburg College in Florida has a male recruiting program called
"Men on the Way," loosely based on a pre-existing program for women.
Howard University plans to start an initiative to address
underrepresentation of black men on campuses, according to a January
report by the Black College Wire. And a few small religious schools
sponsor a program that encourages boys to go into teaching.

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Masculist

External


Since: Mar 27, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mar 27, 6:54 pm, "Mike" <yard22... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> www.google.comNews
>
> Big man on campus likely a woman
> By Amy Fagan
> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> Published March 27, 2007

"Let's not get alarmed about this", the feminists in this article say,
"It's not a 'zero sum game'". Huh? You mean the number one indicator
of future high earnings that men are losing out on isn't alarming?
Then Sommers says it could cause "all sorts of psychological
ramifications." Why Christine, isn't that implication a bit sexist?
I mean women can be providers too, though admittedly all cross
cultural studies show that men marry down economically and women marry
up. Both will just have to not marry I guess. No biggie as long as
women have control and boy are they going to have control!

Tom

> Women's share of college enrollment is at an all-time high as
> education researchers continue to debate what is causing the trend of
> more women than men going to college, and what the future impact of
> the trend could be.
> "It is a topic of some conversation within the admissions
> community, and they certainly are looking at it," said Barmak
> Nassirian, associate executive director of the American Association of
> Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. "I don't think we have
> a proper understanding of what would be at the root."
> "It's well-documented that there's a female majority on college
> campuses," said Jacqueline King, director of the American Council on
> Education's Center for Policy Analysis and author of a 2006 study on
> the topic. "I think where there's not a consensus is why this is the
> case."
> Historically, more men than women have graduated college. In 1870,
> the first year a national survey was conducted, 7,993 men and 1,378
> women received bachelor's degrees. But by the 1980s, women were
> outpacing men and that trend has continued through today, even though
> overall numbers for both groups continue to rise.
> In the 2003-04 school year, 595,425 men received bachelor's
> degrees, compared with 804,117 women, according to the Department of
> Education's National Center for Education Statistics. The department's
> fall 2004 numbers show that 57.2 percent of college enrollees were
> women -- the highest percentage ever.
> The department estimates that by the time the 2013-14 school year
> rolls around, women receiving degrees will outnumber men by more than
> 300,000.
> "Every year, the situation gets worse and worse and worse," said
> Tom Mortensen, a higher-education policy analyst who publishes
> Postsecondary Education Opportunity newsletter and has beat the drums
> on the issue since the 1990s.
> "It's a very serious and long-standing problem, and there's no
> solution in sight," said Christina Hoff Sommers, a resident scholar at
> the conservative American Enterprise Institute and author of "The War
> Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men."
> Some, however, say the trend has been overblown and misunderstood.
> Sara Mead, a senior policy analyst with the Education Sector, a
> liberal think tank, said the public has wrongly been led to think that
> boys are doing worse than girls.
> "The rate at which men go to college has not fallen; women have
> just increased their numbers more rapidly," she said. In a report
> titled "The Truth About Boys and Girls," she says, "The idea that
> women might actually surpass men in some areas ... seems hard for many
> people to swallow. Thus, boys are routinely characterized as 'falling
> behind' even as they improve in absolute terms."
> Catherine Hill, director of research at the American Association
> of University Women, agreed that gains for women shouldn't be read as
> losses for men. "It's not a zero-sum game," she said.
> Ms. Hill added that "there's a lot to celebrate" in the trend,
> saying that not too long ago, it was rare to have women in certain
> fields, like medicine, while today it's routine.
> But the discussion of possible causes of and solutions for the
> broader college gap between men and women continues. One possible
> cause is that since the 1980s, some older women have gone back to
> college to get degrees, said Ms. King. There is a degree of "pent-up
> demand," Ms. Hill agreed.
> Mr. Nassirian said some college admissions officers think the
> problem stems primarily from shortcomings in the K-12 education
> system, while other officers think the problem lies in colleges'
> marketing and messaging -- that somehow boys are overlooked or
> discouraged by the messages they receive from higher education. "My
> guess is that a little of both would be the case," Mr. Nassirian
> said.
> Ms. King's 2006 study found the college gap is still the widest
> between minority men and minority women -- leading some, like Ms.
> Mead, to argue that if the word "crisis" is to be used, it should be
> used for the plight of minority boys.
> But Mrs. Sommers said problems for all boys begins in younger
> grades. She said girls, on average, adapt better to school from the
> early grades, traditional classrooms aren't set up to accommodate
> boys' natural energy, and that, while state and federal efforts have
> aggressively aimed to improve girls' performance in science and math,
> there hasn't been an equal effort to help boys' in their weaker
> subjects of reading and writing.
> "All of the emphasis has been on girls. Boys were left on the back
> burner," Mrs. Sommers said.
> Judith Kleinfeld found the imbalance -- which is happening in
> other Western industrialized countries, too -- so troubling that she
> started the Boys Project, a coalition of scholars, educators and
> nonprofit groups that tries to help engage and inspire boys at the
> local, state and national levels. She said girls' surging college
> success is important and welcomed, but it's also clearly time to
> encourage boys to the same degree.
> "Boys don't like school -- this is the root," she said.
> Mrs. Sommers said if the trend continues, the result could be a
> generation of poorly educated and unemployable boys facing a
> generation of women who are considerably more educated, a situation
> causing "all sorts of psychological ramifications."
> Meanwhile, a few colleges are taking specific steps. Among them,
> St. Petersburg College in Florida has a male recruiting program called
> "Men on the Way," loosely based on a pre-existing program for women.
> Howard University plans to start an initiative to address
> underrepresentation of black men on campuses, according to a January
> report by the Black College Wire. And a few small religious schools
> sponsor a program that encourages boys to go into teaching.

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Janet Puistonen

External


Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 16



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female jobs for
high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male jobs for high
school graduates. The typical "female" entry-level job (retail, childcare,
etc) does not pay a living wage. The typical "male" entry- level job
(construction) easily pays twice as much. It's tempting, although in many
cases short-sighted, for a young guy with no interest in traditional
academics and an aversion to working in a cubicle to skip the whole college
thing and go straight to work.
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Andre Lieven

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Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: soc>men, others (more info?)

"Janet Puistonen" (boxhill@verizon.net) writes:
> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female jobs
> for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male jobs for
> high school graduates.

Then, the logical inferance that any smart female should be able to
figure out is, " If I want to make more money, I should NOT go into
a 'traditional female job'. "

One hopes that modern " liberated " women could *think* that far
ahead...

> The typical "female" entry-level job (retail, childcare,
> etc) does not pay a living wage. The typical "male" entry- level job
> (construction) easily pays twice as much.

That could be that, until men build a building, no retail or child
care in it can occur...

> It's tempting, although in many
> cases short-sighted, for a young guy with no interest in traditional
> academics and an aversion to working in a cubicle to skip the whole
> college thing and go straight to work.

Trade schools and apprenticeships. With the facilities that such
can give anyone, anyone can make good money in many needed trades.

And, as far as the alleged " wage gap " goes, its a fraud. See
Dr. Warren Farrell's " Why Men Earn More ". " Earn " is the operative
word.

When you work harder, in tougher jobs, you tend to be paid more
than sitting around in a cublicle, on a WalMart floor, or minding
the kids that a bunch of *cheap* women dropped on you.

Andre
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Janet Puistonen

External


Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 16



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Andre Lieven wrote:
> "Janet Puistonen" (boxhill@verizon.net) writes:
>> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female
>> jobs for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male
>> jobs for high school graduates.
>
> Then, the logical inferance that any smart female should be able to
> figure out is, " If I want to make more money, I should NOT go into
> a 'traditional female job'. "

> One hopes that modern " liberated " women could *think* that far
> ahead...

Which is perhaps why they attend college in greater numbers?

The rest of your post is unworthy of a response.
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Andre Lieven

External


Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:22 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>feminism, others (more info?)

"Janet Puistonen" (boxedup@verizon.nut) fights like a gurl(coward):
> Andre Lieven wrote:
>> "Janet Puistonen" (boxhill@verizon.net) writes:
>>> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female
>>> jobs for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male
>>> jobs for high school graduates.
>>
>> Then, the logical inferance that any smart female should be able to
>> figure out is, " If I want to make more money, I should NOT go into
>> a 'traditional female job'. "
>
>> One hopes that modern " liberated " women could *think* that far
>> ahead...
>
> Which is perhaps why they attend college in greater numbers?

<laughs> Yet, according to your type, women *still* CAN'T make the $$$
of non college MEN.

So, its clear that most such college wimminz are there to be Lesbians
Until Graduation, Wimminz Stoodies Boobs, and in search of their MRS.
Degrees. As, if they were as serious as the men going, why, after getting
out, they'd... EARN equal $$$. QED.

> The rest of your post is unworthy of a response.

<Projection>

Your *concession* that the " wage gap "is a *proven lie* is noted.

Feminism; All Proven Lies.

Andre
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justwaxing

External


Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

X-No-Archive:
On Mar 29, 5:23 am, "Janet Puistonen" <boxh... RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote:
> Andre Lieven wrote:
> > "Janet Puistonen" (boxe...@verizon.nut) fights like a gurl(coward):
> >> Andre Lieven wrote:
> >>> "Janet Puistonen" (boxh...@verizon.net) writes:
> >>>> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female
> >>>> jobs for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male
> >>>> jobs for high school graduates.
>
> >>> Then, the logical inferance that any smart female should be able to
> >>> figure out is, " If I want to make more money, I should NOT go into
> >>> a 'traditional female job'. "
>
> >>> One hopes that modern " liberated " women could *think* that far
> >>> ahead...
>
> >> Which is perhaps why they attend college in greater numbers?
>
> > <laughs> Yet, according to your type, women *still* CAN'T make the $$$
> > of non college MEN.
>
> "My type"? What on earth are you talking about?
>
> I said no such thing. Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong
> point; tired sexist invective is.
>
> > So, its clear that most such college wimminz are there to be Lesbians
> > Until Graduation, Wimminz Stoodies Boobs, and in search of their MRS.
> > Degrees. As, if they were as serious as the men going, why, after
> > getting out, they'd... EARN equal $$$. QED.
>
> >> The rest of your post is unworthy of a response.
>
> > <Projection>
>
> > Your *concession* that the " wage gap "is a *proven lie* is noted.
>
> > Feminism; All Proven Lies.
>
> > Andre
>
> You are laughable.

Andre responds the same way to everyone. He particularly goes after
any new women who post here to try and drive them away. I suggest that
you don't even bother responding to him, it will get you nowhere.
Pretty soon he will tell you that he is your "better". Basically women
are all the same "type" to him. There is good reason he was nominated
for a "kookle" award.
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Janet Puistonen

External


Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 16



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Andre Lieven wrote:
> "Janet Puistonen" (boxedup@verizon.nut) fights like a gurl(coward):
>> Andre Lieven wrote:
>>> "Janet Puistonen" (boxhill@verizon.net) writes:
>>>> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female
>>>> jobs for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male
>>>> jobs for high school graduates.
>>>
>>> Then, the logical inferance that any smart female should be able to
>>> figure out is, " If I want to make more money, I should NOT go into
>>> a 'traditional female job'. "
>>
>>> One hopes that modern " liberated " women could *think* that far
>>> ahead...
>>
>> Which is perhaps why they attend college in greater numbers?
>
> <laughs> Yet, according to your type, women *still* CAN'T make the $$$
> of non college MEN.

"My type"? What on earth are you talking about?

I said no such thing. Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong
point; tired sexist invective is.

> So, its clear that most such college wimminz are there to be Lesbians
> Until Graduation, Wimminz Stoodies Boobs, and in search of their MRS.
> Degrees. As, if they were as serious as the men going, why, after
> getting out, they'd... EARN equal $$$. QED.
>
>> The rest of your post is unworthy of a response.
>
> <Projection>
>
> Your *concession* that the " wage gap "is a *proven lie* is noted.
>
> Feminism; All Proven Lies.
>
> Andre

You are laughable.
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Masculist

External


Since: Mar 27, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>feminism, others (more info?)

On Mar 28, 7:42 am, "Janet Puistonen" <boxh....RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:
> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female jobs for
> high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male jobs for high
> school graduates.

Get off the feminist smoke screen "traditionally" bullshit. God you
make me sick. I was a nurse, child care worker and worked retail at K-
Mart!! There's lots of men in those jobs and nurses make damn good
money. You greedy little bitch! Thirty five years of this disgusting
feminine greed that you sugar daddies have been indulging at the
expense of the rest of us men. Go to hell.

Tom

> The typical "female" entry-level job (retail, childcare,
> etc) does not pay a living wage. The typical "male" entry- level job
> (construction) easily pays twice as much. It's tempting, although in many
> cases short-sighted, for a young guy with no interest in traditional
> academics and an aversion to working in a cubicle to skip the whole college
> thing and go straight to work.
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MsNothing

External


Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Janet Puistonen" <boxhill DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:A9vOh.5072$J21.1007@trndny03...
> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female jobs
> for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male jobs for
> high school graduates. The typical "female" entry-level job (retail,
> childcare, etc) does not pay a living wage. The typical "male" entry-
> level job (construction) easily pays twice as much. It's tempting,
> although in many cases short-sighted, for a young guy with no interest in
> traditional academics and an aversion to working in a cubicle to skip the
> whole college thing and go straight to work.
>

Did you know the latest studies show that women aged 18 - 25 earn 10% more
than men within that same age group (Pay equity study , canadian bureau of
vital statistics 2005)
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Viking

External


Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:42:40 GMT, "Janet Puistonen"
<boxhill DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:

>There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female jobs for
>high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male jobs for high
>school graduates. The typical "female" entry-level job (retail, childcare,
>etc) does not pay a living wage. The typical "male" entry- level job
>(construction) easily pays twice as much. It's tempting, although in many
>cases short-sighted, for a young guy with no interest in traditional
>academics and an aversion to working in a cubicle to skip the whole college
>thing and go straight to work.

Oh come off it. That's always been true, but the decrease in men
attending college is far more recent.
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Andre Lieven

External


Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: soc>men, others (more info?)

"Janet Puistonen" (boxhill@verizon.net) flees like a spanked gurl:
> Viking wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:42:40 GMT, "Janet Puistonen"
>> <boxhill.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There's another fact that the article ignores: traditionally female
>>> jobs for high school graduates pay far less than traditionally male
>>> jobs for high school graduates. The typical "female" entry-level job
>>> (retail, childcare, etc) does not pay a living wage. The typical
>>> "male" entry- level job (construction) easily pays twice as much.
>>> It's tempting, although in many cases short-sighted, for a young guy
>>> with no interest in traditional academics and an aversion to working
>>> in a cubicle to skip the whole college thing and go straight to work.
>>
>> Oh come off it. That's always been true, but the decrease in men
>> attending college is far more recent.
>
> I failed to notice earlier that this Andre person had cross-posted from
> soc.college.admissions to alt.feminism and soc.men. My apologies for
> inadvertently cross-posting.

<Laughs> Note that this WomenFirster Bigot bint tries to excuse HER
cross posting as being " inadvertant ", thus showing that SHE doesn't
believe that women can be as *responsible as men*,,,

Feminism, the ultimate in misandry AND misogyny. Proven yet again.

> I'll leave all of you nice boys to continue playing with yourselves.

While Janet Pissant flees from her BIGOTRY and IDIOCIES having been
" inadvertantly " exposed....

Next !

Andre
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Janet Puistonen

External


Since: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 16



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:16 pm
Post subject: Re: "Big man on campus likely a woman" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: soc>college>admissions (more info?)

[cross-posting removed]

Andre Lieven wrote:

<snip>

>> I failed to notice earlier that this Andre person had cross-posted
>> from soc.college.admissions to alt.feminism and soc.men. My
>> apologies for inadvertently cross-posting.
>
> <Laughs> Note that this WomenFirster Bigot bint tries to excuse HER
> cross posting as being " inadvertant ", thus showing that SHE doesn't
> believe that women can be as *responsible as men*,,,

<snip>

> " inadvertantly " exposed....
>
> Next !
>
> Andre

What you should note is that, unlike you, I can spell "inadvertent." I wish
you wouldn't misquote me.

Oh well, off to the killfile with you, you cross-posting troll...
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