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Next: College Selection, another case
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 116
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: soc>college>admissions (more info?)
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"rick++" wrote in message
> Today's NY Times mentions that ivies and top state schools are losing the
> battle with economic diversity. Despite affirmative action and its thinly
Not "despite." AA/Diversity often means rich Black applicants get
preferenced over poor white kids.
> disguised legal substitutes, the fraction of familes in the the top 5% of
> income (define as $150K in 2004) is increasing. |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 116
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"somebody" wrote
> "octo" wrote
> >
> > Harvard charged 5K and 40K in 1974 to 2004.
> > How much a Berkeley Hills or Piedmont home cost in 1974 and 2004?
>
> What does a cost of a home have to do with the cost of a college tuition?
>
> >
> > I still maintain that parents should let the children pick the best
> > fit college and ignore the cost. It is the childrens life, not the
> > parents any more.
>
> You keep saying ignore the cost. Would you pay 40k+ to go to USC (Univ of
> Southern Calif) when you could go to Berkeley for half the cost (unles you
> are studying film or art or some such USC specialty) ? I submit to you
that
> Harvard is a special case, but other private colleges (all costing roughly
> 36-42k) does make one wonder about the worth of the high dollar amount.
Or
> would you pay 40k to go to Middlebury College (to pick an East Coast
> example) when you can go to the College of William and Mary or a UVa for
> half the cost even as a non-Va resident.
What Octo (or the person who most probably posted on this ng previously
using another pseudonym) is saying that it is foolish to choose a college
based on the expected cost over the next four years while ignoring the
expected return over the lifetime of the graduate.
For a Cal resident choosing Berkeley over Stanford appears to be a
no-brainer when considering only the cost.
Abe |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 116
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:16 am
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"octo" wrote in message
> .
>
> I did some thinking. In 1974, average starting pay for a BSEE was
> $13K. In 1978, we made an offer to a BSEE from UCLA at $16K. Company
> was near Manhattan Beach South of LAX.
You sure about the $16K in '78? Sounds very low. >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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External
Since: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Abe Kohen" wrote in message
I am very sure. Recall that Nixon put in price/wage freeze back in
1971 and many companies extended the wage freeze upto 1976. My company
froze salary for those with income higher than $24K a year.
BTW, the $16K was $3K above the 1974 level. 23% move was a lot in 2
years.
...
> "octo" wrote in message
>
> > .
> >
> > I did some thinking. In 1974, average starting pay for a BSEE was
> > $13K. In 1978, we made an offer to a BSEE from UCLA at $16K. Company
> > was near Manhattan Beach South of LAX.
>
> You sure about the $16K in '78? Sounds very low. >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 116
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:31 am
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"octo" wrote
> "Abe Kohen" wrote
>
> I am very sure. Recall that Nixon put in price/wage freeze back in
> 1971 and many companies extended the wage freeze upto 1976. My company
> froze salary for those with income higher than $24K a year.
Sorry but in 1971 I was preoccupied elsewhere.
>
> BTW, the $16K was $3K above the 1974 level. 23% move was a lot in 2
> years.
In '79 with an MS in hand, I believe my job offer was much higher.
In '80 I heard of much higher BS starting salaries.
>
>
> ...
> > "octo" wrote in message
> >
> > > .
> > >
> > > I did some thinking. In 1974, average starting pay for a BSEE was
> > > $13K. In 1978, we made an offer to a BSEE from UCLA at $16K. Company
> > > was near Manhattan Beach South of LAX.
> >
> > You sure about the $16K in '78? Sounds very low. >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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External
Since: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Abe Kohen" wrote in message
With a MSEE, add ~15% to the offer of a BSEE.
May be other folks who was working in the 70's can shed more light.
...
> "octo" wrote
> > "Abe Kohen" wrote
> >
> > I am very sure. Recall that Nixon put in price/wage freeze back in
> > 1971 and many companies extended the wage freeze upto 1976. My company
> > froze salary for those with income higher than $24K a year.
>
> Sorry but in 1971 I was preoccupied elsewhere.
>
> >
> > BTW, the $16K was $3K above the 1974 level. 23% move was a lot in 2
> > years.
>
> In '79 with an MS in hand, I believe my job offer was much higher.
>
> In '80 I heard of much higher BS starting salaries.
>
> >
> >
> > ...
> > > "octo" wrote in message
> > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > I did some thinking. In 1974, average starting pay for a BSEE was
> > > > $13K. In 1978, we made an offer to a BSEE from UCLA at $16K. Company
> > > > was near Manhattan Beach South of LAX.
> > >
> > > You sure about the $16K in '78? Sounds very low. >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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External
Since: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:53 pm
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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(octo) wrote in message ...
> Where is student learning, enjoyment and self expression weight in?
Well, your original post said nothing about the difference in
education. Somehow you just assume that Harvard is better.
Self-expression? Are you joking? I think that would be no problem at
Berkeley. Enjoyment? People seem to enjoy Berkeley and the San
Francisco Bay Area. Learning? Perhaps there is more learning going on
at Berkeley because the students acutally have to work for their
grades.
Sal
>
> sunsol.DeleteThis@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message ...
> > (octo) wrote in message ...
> > > I have read several posts herein that parents are choosing Colleges
> > > for their bright kids based on scholarship aid, travelling cost and
> > > tuition.
> > >
> > > Their logic escapes me entirely since one can get low cost loans these
> > > days for 100% of tuition/fees/R&B. Over time, the cost of a Harvard
> > > degree is dirt cheap. Here is a quote 30 years ago:
> > >
> > > ...The price of a Harvard-Radcliffe education will climb to $5350 next
> > > year, an increase of $325 over the 1973-74 rates, the Faculty
> > > announced yesterday...
> > >
> > > That is less than typical monthly housing cost for a house within 50
> > > kilometers around Berkeley!
> >
> > Hmmmmm. The cost of housing in Berkeley. Lets say that a student
> > attended Berkeley for four years, in the early seventies, spending
> > approximately $350/year on fees, which I think is not too far off the
> > mark. Then the $20,000 saved could have been spent on a house near the
> > campus. Would have been a great investment. Possibly more valuable
> > than a Harvard education.
> >
> > Sal >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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External
Since: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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sunsol.DeleteThis@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message
You were right. There are more US senators, Congressmen, Presidents,
CEOs and world Statemen from UCB than Harvard or Yale.
LOL!
...
> (octo) wrote in message ...
> > Where is student learning, enjoyment and self expression weight in?
>
>
> Well, your original post said nothing about the difference in
> education. Somehow you just assume that Harvard is better.
> Self-expression? Are you joking? I think that would be no problem at
> Berkeley. Enjoyment? People seem to enjoy Berkeley and the San
> Francisco Bay Area. Learning? Perhaps there is more learning going on
> at Berkeley because the students acutally have to work for their
> grades.
>
> Sal
> >
> > sunsol.DeleteThis@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message ...
> > > (octo) wrote in message ...
> > > > I have read several posts herein that parents are choosing Colleges
> > > > for their bright kids based on scholarship aid, travelling cost and
> > > > tuition.
> > > >
> > > > Their logic escapes me entirely since one can get low cost loans these
> > > > days for 100% of tuition/fees/R&B. Over time, the cost of a Harvard
> > > > degree is dirt cheap. Here is a quote 30 years ago:
> > > >
> > > > ...The price of a Harvard-Radcliffe education will climb to $5350 next
> > > > year, an increase of $325 over the 1973-74 rates, the Faculty
> > > > announced yesterday...
> > > >
> > > > That is less than typical monthly housing cost for a house within 50
> > > > kilometers around Berkeley!
> > >
> > > Hmmmmm. The cost of housing in Berkeley. Lets say that a student
> > > attended Berkeley for four years, in the early seventies, spending
> > > approximately $350/year on fees, which I think is not too far off the
> > > mark. Then the $20,000 saved could have been spent on a house near the
> > > campus. Would have been a great investment. Possibly more valuable
> > > than a Harvard education.
> > >
> > > Sal >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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External
Since: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: College Choice Based on Cost [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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(octo) wrote in message ...
> sunsol DeleteThis @prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message
>
> You were right. There are more US senators, Congressmen, Presidents,
> CEOs and world Statemen from UCB than Harvard or Yale.
>
> LOL!
>
Really? Interesting. I think enrollment at UCB is also a lot higher.
Don't forget the denominator.
Sal
> ...
> > (octo) wrote in message ...
> > > Where is student learning, enjoyment and self expression weight in?
> >
> >
> > Well, your original post said nothing about the difference in
> > education. Somehow you just assume that Harvard is better.
> > Self-expression? Are you joking? I think that would be no problem at
> > Berkeley. Enjoyment? People seem to enjoy Berkeley and the San
> > Francisco Bay Area. Learning? Perhaps there is more learning going on
> > at Berkeley because the students acutally have to work for their
> > grades.
> >
> > Sal
> > >
> > > sunsol DeleteThis @prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message ...
> > > > (octo) wrote in message ...
> > > > > I have read several posts herein that parents are choosing Colleges
> > > > > for their bright kids based on scholarship aid, travelling cost and
> > > > > tuition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Their logic escapes me entirely since one can get low cost loans these
> > > > > days for 100% of tuition/fees/R&B. Over time, the cost of a Harvard
> > > > > degree is dirt cheap. Here is a quote 30 years ago:
> > > > >
> > > > > ...The price of a Harvard-Radcliffe education will climb to $5350 next
> > > > > year, an increase of $325 over the 1973-74 rates, the Faculty
> > > > > announced yesterday...
> > > > >
> > > > > That is less than typical monthly housing cost for a house within 50
> > > > > kilometers around Berkeley!
> > > >
> > > > Hmmmmm. The cost of housing in Berkeley. Lets say that a student
> > > > attended Berkeley for four years, in the early seventies, spending
> > > > approximately $350/year on fees, which I think is not too far off the
> > > > mark. Then the $20,000 saved could have been spent on a house near the
> > > > campus. Would have been a great investment. Possibly more valuable
> > > > than a Harvard education.
> > > >
> > > > Sal >> Stay informed about: College Choice Based on Cost |
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