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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 362
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:09 am
Post subject: Thank God for Freedom of Religion
Archived from groups: alt>education, others (more info?)
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http://www.loogslair.com/poliwolf14.html
Thank God for Freedom of Religion
The holiday season is fast approaching. As just about all of us know,
Christmas is an event that is rooted in Christian mythology. Although the
actual event of Jesus' birth didn't actually take place on December 25th,
it's been widely accepted as the foremost day in the religion. However, it's
also a good time to point out just precarious a position this religion - and
all religions for that matter - are finding themselves in at this point in
our society. And it's reaching a point where we have to start taking notice
of how our nation's spiritual traditions are being eroded to the point of
crumbling.
I think I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I am not a
biblethumper. Seriously, when I attended a funeral last week, it was the
first time I'd been to church in about a year and half. However, I do
subscribe to much of the philosophies that were taught to me as a child, and
I'm more than willing to fight for the survival of my moral foundation.
Freedom of religion is under attack by a group of people who are guilty of
the same intolerance they accuse us of performing. Atheist special interest
groups seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
Personally, I have nothing against atheists and their religious beliefs (or
lack thereof). That's what freedom of religion is all about: everyone is
free to practice their religion of choice, and nobody is allowed to force a
religion upon anybody else. This certainly makes sense: if you look back on
how and why this country came into being, you'll realize that religious
freedom was one of the driving forces in the formation of the US. However,
you'll also find out that not only did the prominent members of our
country's heritage were deeply religious themselves. Many of the state
constitutions from the original 13 colonies - not to mention the Declaration
of Independence that basically started this whole country in the first
place - make reference to a higher power that created human law and human
rights.
If you don't think that there's someone in charge of all this, you're free
to do so, but in the meantime, these lawsuits and protests are really
becoming tiresome. It was moronic for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to
rule that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it gives a
shout-out to God - but they wouldn't have been able to do that if someone
hadn't brought the suit to them. Now, it's reached a level where atheists
don't even appear to be atheist anymore - they're anti-religious. How else
would you explain the constant bellyaching about nativity scenes in front of
City Halls and sculptures of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? I know
that there's supposed to be a degree of separation between religion and
government, but let's be serious - the government isn't the one making those
religious tributes, the people working for the government are.
Nowadays, the anti-religion lobby is seeking to drive any and all mention of
religion from any place where they might see or hear it. But what everyone
needs to understand is that freedom of religion does not mean isolation from
religion. We must all be tolerant of each other's religious perspective. But
the door swings both ways: if the atheists among us wish to have the ability
to deny any spiritual beliefs, they must also allow the rest of us to
practice the spiritual beliefs that we have. They don't seem to want to do
that.
What especially troubles me about the atheist movement is their indignance.
I've spoken with several atheists about this issue. And it seems like many
of them wear their atheism like some sort of crown. I almost think that to
some of these people, atheism is a status symbol. You certainly get that
sense when their actions make it look like they feel that religion is below
them, and as such should be kept away from them like you quarantine
preschoolers from the chickenpox. One of them even said to me - point
blank - that they don't even "want to know religion exists".
Like I said, I'm by no means a religious zealot, but that scares me.
Religion indeed does exist. Dozens of them, in fact. And we should be
allowed to practice them as we choose, so long as it doesn't directly lock
horns with the religious practices of another person. See, that's the most
curious thing about the atheist movement - theoretically, all the religious
imagery, traditions and philosophies prevalent in our culture shouldn't
bother them at all. The First Amendment guarantees that no law can be passed
that infringes on one's freedom of religion. They have no religion, so how
can we infringe on it? Of course, many of them denounce the few instances
where the government does acknowledge its Christian roots - such as the
words "under God" in the Pledge or the phrase "In God we Trust" on our
money - but one of the things you have to do in order to live peacefully in
a free society is learn to swallow a little bilge. I personally don't think
the government has any constitutional right to mandate that abortion be
legal, but obviously the courts see otherwise, and honestly there are bigger
fish to fry in this country than that.
This country's heritage is under fire by a small minority of people who
think that the First Amendment was designed to sterilized the public square
from any traces of religion, when it's obvious that religion is one of the
forces behind the creation of this country. It comes to me as no surprise
that the continuous fraying of our moral fabric is running parallel with the
subversion of religion in our society. It's one thing to want amnesty from
persecution because your beliefs don't concur with the majority, but it's
another matter entirely when you're actively seeking to wipe out religion
entirely. It's only a matter of time before even fair-weather religious
types like myself start to lash out against the atheist movement - that is,
if it hasn't already.
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic. |
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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion (and DeJaNews) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:09:58 -0900, "dpr" <why> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------
>ladies use my tongue for your pleasure
></groups?q=author:danaraffaniello%40worldnet.
>att.net&start=210&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT>F-8&selm=
>63j187%24nji%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&rnum=226>
>swm very oral will orally worship any female that wishes to be worshipped.
>will kiss and lick your feet and butt .
>might be wiling to be your toilet paper if you
>are that aggressive |
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External
Since: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 87
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:08 am
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <100n75dsulde3 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>http://www.loogslair.com/poliwolf14.html
>Thank God for Freedom of Religion
>
>The holiday season is fast approaching. As just about all of us know,
>Christmas is an event that is rooted in Christian mythology. Although the
>actual event of Jesus' birth didn't actually take place on December 25th,
>it's been widely accepted as the foremost day in the religion. However, it's
>also a good time to point out just precarious a position this religion - and
>all religions for that matter - are finding themselves in at this point in
>our society. And it's reaching a point where we have to start taking notice
>of how our nation's spiritual traditions are being eroded to the point of
>crumbling.
>I think I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I am not a
>biblethumper. Seriously, when I attended a funeral last week, it was the
>first time I'd been to church in about a year and half. However, I do
>subscribe to much of the philosophies that were taught to me as a child, and
>I'm more than willing to fight for the survival of my moral foundation.
>Freedom of religion is under attack by a group of people who are guilty of
>the same intolerance they accuse us of performing. Atheist special interest
>groups seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
>Personally, I have nothing against atheists and their religious beliefs (or
>lack thereof). That's what freedom of religion is all about: everyone is
>free to practice their religion of choice, and nobody is allowed to force a
>religion upon anybody else. This certainly makes sense: if you look back on
>how and why this country came into being, you'll realize that religious
>freedom was one of the driving forces in the formation of the US. However,
>you'll also find out that not only did the prominent members of our
>country's heritage were deeply religious themselves. Many of the state
>constitutions from the original 13 colonies - not to mention the Declaration
>of Independence that basically started this whole country in the first
>place - make reference to a higher power that created human law and human
>rights.
True, though many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, Franklin,
Washington, etc.) were Theists, rather than Christians.
>If you don't think that there's someone in charge of all this, you're free
>to do so, but in the meantime, these lawsuits and protests are really
>becoming tiresome. It was moronic for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to
>rule that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it gives a
>shout-out to God - but they wouldn't have been able to do that if someone
>hadn't brought the suit to them. Now, it's reached a level where atheists
>don't even appear to be atheist anymore - they're anti-religious. How else
>would you explain the constant bellyaching about nativity scenes in front of
>City Halls and sculptures of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? I know
>that there's supposed to be a degree of separation between religion and
>government, but let's be serious - the government isn't the one making those
>religious tributes, the people working for the government are.
You properly distinguish between government and religion, but then draw a
distinction between "the government" and "the people working for the
government".
I believe "the government" IS the people working for it.
A judge in a courthouse represents the government. If HE violates the
separation of church and state, the government is violating the separation
between church and state.
If seeing the ten commandments at all times is so important to him he needs to
quit working for the govwernment and start working for a church.
>Nowadays, the anti-religion lobby is seeking to drive any and all mention of
>religion from any place where they might see or hear it.
I challenge you to list one example (with verifiable references) where an
atheist has attempted to remove ANY religious symbol from ANY property that
wasn't public property.
People that have legitimate points to make don't have to resort to
exaggeration to support their points.
Aren't your churches and your homes enough for you? Why this *need* to use
public property to display your religious symbols.
Set up your nativity scenes on your church lawn or your own front lawn and
preserve the separation of church and state. Why is this unacceptable. Why
the need to push your symbols onto "public" property?
>But what everyone
>needs to understand is that freedom of religion does not mean isolation from
>religion. We must all be tolerant of each other's religious perspective. But
>the door swings both ways: if the atheists among us wish to have the ability
>to deny any spiritual beliefs, they must also allow the rest of us to
>practice the spiritual beliefs that we have. They don't seem to want to do
>that.
Again you exaggerate.
I challenge you to name one instance (with verifiable references) of an
atheist attempting to prevent a religious person from practicing his/her
spiritual beliefs (other than on public property to preserve the separation of
church and state).
Just *one* example of an atheist trying to prevent someone from exercising
his/her religious beliefs on their own property or in their church.
If you are going to make claims about some group then you should be willing
and able to support those claims.
>What especially troubles me about the atheist movement is their indignance.
>I've spoken with several atheists about this issue. And it seems like many
>of them wear their atheism like some sort of crown. I almost think that to
>some of these people, atheism is a status symbol. You certainly get that
>sense when their actions make it look like they feel that religion is below
>them, and as such should be kept away from them like you quarantine
>preschoolers from the chickenpox. One of them even said to me - point
>blank - that they don't even "want to know religion exists".
>Like I said, I'm by no means a religious zealot, but that scares me.
Know what scares me?
Pat Robertson.
"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians
and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have
to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold
false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them."
There's an example of "indignantion" for you.
Also makes one wonder what Robertson means by the word "love". When I love
someone, I *want* to be nice to them.
I certainly don't think, "I don't have to be nice to those assholes", about
people I love. I am aware he called these Christian people "the spirit of the
Antichrist" rather than assholes, but I believe the words are interchangable
within this context.
>Religion indeed does exist. Dozens of them, in fact. And we should be
>allowed to practice them as we choose, so long as it doesn't directly lock
>horns with the religious practices of another person. See, that's the most
>curious thing about the atheist movement - theoretically, all the religious
>imagery, traditions and philosophies prevalent in our culture shouldn't
>bother them at all. The First Amendment guarantees that no law can be passed
>that infringes on one's freedom of religion. They have no religion, so how
>can we infringe on it?
Many atheists make a religion of Disbelief.
Theists believe in a "God" without proof, but on faith, If an Atheist claims
"there is no god", he is proclaiming a belief without proof in support of that
belief (as lack of proof *for* a god's existence does not constitute
"proof" of that a god does not exist any more than lack of evidence that the
world is round is evidence that the world is not round).
A belief concerning god, whether positive or negative, based on faith rather
than proof is a religious belief.
>Of course, many of them denounce the few instances
>where the government does acknowledge its Christian roots - such as the
>words "under God" in the Pledge or the phrase "In God we Trust" on our
>money - but one of the things you have to do in order to live peacefully in
>a free society is learn to swallow a little bilge.
Is that what you call observing citizens ignoring the Constitution?
Swallowing a little bilge?
I have a better suggestion. The one thing you have to do in order to live
peacefully in a free society is learn not to violate the law, *especially* the
Constitution.
If that means keeping religious symbols on church or private property, then I
guess you might think of that restriction as just swallowing "a little bilge",
you know, in order to live peacefully.
>I personally don't think
>the government has any constitutional right to mandate that abortion be
>legal, but obviously the courts see otherwise, and honestly there are bigger
>fish to fry in this country than that.
>This country's heritage is under fire by a small minority of people who
>think that the First Amendment was designed to sterilized the public square
>from any traces of religion, when it's obvious that religion is one of the
>forces behind the creation of this country.
One of the functions of the First Amendment was precisely to rid the public
square of any religious endorsement, while at the same time ensuring the
ability of every citizen to practice his/her religious beliefs on his/her own
property or church property without interference.
Actually the force behind the creation of this country, was the issue of
taxation of the colonies by the British government without representation in
British Parliament.
You may be thinking of the Puritans and Quakers and others who came to the
colonies in America to escape religious persecution by the government
established Church of England.
>It comes to me as no surprise
>that the continuous fraying of our moral fabric is running parallel with the
>subversion of religion in our society. It's one thing to want amnesty from
>persecution because your beliefs don't concur with the majority, but it's
>another matter entirely when you're actively seeking to wipe out religion
>entirely.
Yet another unsupportable exaggeration.
Your example atheist didn't state he was planning on "actively seeking to wipe
out religion entirely." You just made that up. He merely said he didn't
"want to know religion exists". In order to be "actively seeking to wipe out
religion" you have to not only "know" that it exists, but you have to maintain
focus on that fact.
>It's only a matter of time before even fair-weather religious
>types like myself start to lash out against the atheist movement - that is,
>if it hasn't already.
>
Well, the Christian religion certainly has a proud tradition of lashing out at
those they disagree with, including other Christians.
I'll bet all that Christian lashing out makes Jesus SO proud that people are
lashing out at others in His name.
After all, that IS what he taught, right?
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
Osama bin Laden, October, 2001 (quoted in NewsMax.com 2/1/02) >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 362
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:08 am
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Paul Revere" <zero DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:gm5Pb.22688$zP6.12784@okepread02...
> In article <100n75dsulde3 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
> >http://www.loogslair.com/poliwolf14.html
> >Thank God for Freedom of Religion
> >
> >The holiday season is fast approaching. As just about all of us know,
> >Christmas is an event that is rooted in Christian mythology. Although the
> >actual event of Jesus' birth didn't actually take place on December 25th,
> >it's been widely accepted as the foremost day in the religion. However,
it's
> >also a good time to point out just precarious a position this religion -
and
> >all religions for that matter - are finding themselves in at this point
in
> >our society. And it's reaching a point where we have to start taking
notice
> >of how our nation's spiritual traditions are being eroded to the point of
> >crumbling.
> >I think I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I am not a
> >biblethumper. Seriously, when I attended a funeral last week, it was the
> >first time I'd been to church in about a year and half. However, I do
> >subscribe to much of the philosophies that were taught to me as a child,
and
> >I'm more than willing to fight for the survival of my moral foundation.
> >Freedom of religion is under attack by a group of people who are guilty
of
> >the same intolerance they accuse us of performing. Atheist special
interest
> >groups seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
> >Personally, I have nothing against atheists and their religious beliefs
(or
> >lack thereof). That's what freedom of religion is all about: everyone is
> >free to practice their religion of choice, and nobody is allowed to force
a
> >religion upon anybody else. This certainly makes sense: if you look back
on
> >how and why this country came into being, you'll realize that religious
> >freedom was one of the driving forces in the formation of the US.
However,
> >you'll also find out that not only did the prominent members of our
> >country's heritage were deeply religious themselves. Many of the state
> >constitutions from the original 13 colonies - not to mention the
Declaration
> >of Independence that basically started this whole country in the first
> >place - make reference to a higher power that created human law and human
> >rights.
>
> True, though many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, Franklin,
> Washington, etc.) were Theists, rather than Christians.
They believed in the same God the Christians believed in.
And they all believed in the Christian beliefs. No matter how much you try
to revise history you will never accomplish that.
>
> >If you don't think that there's someone in charge of all this, you're
free
> >to do so, but in the meantime, these lawsuits and protests are really
> >becoming tiresome. It was moronic for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to
> >rule that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it gives
a
> >shout-out to God - but they wouldn't have been able to do that if someone
> >hadn't brought the suit to them. Now, it's reached a level where atheists
> >don't even appear to be atheist anymore - they're anti-religious. How
else
> >would you explain the constant bellyaching about nativity scenes in front
of
> >City Halls and sculptures of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? I know
> >that there's supposed to be a degree of separation between religion and
> >government, but let's be serious - the government isn't the one making
those
> >religious tributes, the people working for the government are.
>
> >Nowadays, the anti-religion lobby is seeking to drive any and all mention
of
> >religion from any place where they might see or hear it.
>
> I challenge you to list one example (with verifiable references) where an
> atheist has attempted to remove ANY religious symbol from ANY property
that
> wasn't public property.
Maybe you need to wake up. No you probably are aware of the atheist attack
on Christians yet you deny what is going on in order to advance your goal of
removing religion from America.
Especially the Christian religion.
> >But what everyone
> >needs to understand is that freedom of religion does not mean isolation
from
> >religion. We must all be tolerant of each other's religious perspective.
But
> >the door swings both ways: if the atheists among us wish to have the
ability
> >to deny any spiritual beliefs, they must also allow the rest of us to
> >practice the spiritual beliefs that we have. They don't seem to want to
do
> >that.
>
> Again you exaggerate.
Again you express your intolerance.
> >What especially troubles me about the atheist movement is their
indignance.
> >I've spoken with several atheists about this issue. And it seems like
many
> >of them wear their atheism like some sort of crown. I almost think that
to
> >some of these people, atheism is a status symbol. You certainly get that
> >sense when their actions make it look like they feel that religion is
below
> >them, and as such should be kept away from them like you quarantine
> >preschoolers from the chickenpox. One of them even said to me - point
> >blank - that they don't even "want to know religion exists".
> >Like I said, I'm by no means a religious zealot, but that scares me.
>
> Know what scares me?
That the article is correct
> >Religion indeed does exist. Dozens of them, in fact. And we should be
> >allowed to practice them as we choose, so long as it doesn't directly
lock
> >horns with the religious practices of another person. See, that's the
most
> >curious thing about the atheist movement - theoretically, all the
religious
> >imagery, traditions and philosophies prevalent in our culture shouldn't
> >bother them at all. The First Amendment guarantees that no law can be
passed
> >that infringes on one's freedom of religion. They have no religion, so
how
> >can we infringe on it?
>
> Many atheists make a religion of Disbelief.
Yep, and those are the ones we need to fight, as they are the ones who are
trying to restrict the religious liberties of the people of the country.
They are the ones who have declared war on the morals and culture of
America.
> >Of course, many of them denounce the few instances
> >where the government does acknowledge its Christian roots - such as the
> >words "under God" in the Pledge or the phrase "In God we Trust" on our
> >money - but one of the things you have to do in order to live peacefully
in
> >a free society is learn to swallow a little bilge.
> >I personally don't think
> >the government has any constitutional right to mandate that abortion be
> >legal, but obviously the courts see otherwise, and honestly there are
bigger
> >fish to fry in this country than that.
> >This country's heritage is under fire by a small minority of people who
> >think that the First Amendment was designed to sterilized the public
square
> >from any traces of religion, when it's obvious that religion is one of
the
> >forces behind the creation of this country.
> >It comes to me as no surprise
> >that the continuous fraying of our moral fabric is running parallel with
the
> >subversion of religion in our society. It's one thing to want amnesty
from
> >persecution because your beliefs don't concur with the majority, but it's
> >another matter entirely when you're actively seeking to wipe out religion
> >entirely.
> >It's only a matter of time before even fair-weather religious
> >types like myself start to lash out against the atheist movement - that
is,
> >if it hasn't already.
> >
>
> Well, the Christian religion certainly has a proud tradition of lashing
Your knowledge of the Christian religion is minimal at best.
Keep your hatred and bigotry under control, if not maybe you should move to
a country more to your liking, like North Korea or China, where religion is
supressed by the state. >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion (and GOOGLE) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 06:45:57 -0900, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>"Paul Revere" <zero DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> True, though many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, Franklin,
>> Washington, etc.) were Theists, rather than Christians.
>
>They believed in the same God the Christians believed in.
>And they all believed in the Christian beliefs.
Would you suppose that people with a western culture handed down from
Rome (who embraced christianity) that ended up as the ONLY government Europe had for
centuries, would be influenced by it?
We're "christians", not because God wanted it that way, but by a fluke of geo-political
events, you stupid sot.
Which has NOTHING to do with a GOVERNMENT.
>> I challenge you to list one example (with verifiable references) where an
>> atheist has attempted to remove ANY religious symbol from ANY property
>that
>> wasn't public property.
>
>Maybe you need to wake up. No you probably are aware of the atheist attack
>on Christians yet you deny what is going on in order to advance your goal of
>removing religion from America.
The ONLY attack on Christians is to stop their bullshit agenda of trying to force
religion, religious crap, and religious nuttery on others who don't want it, you sick
fuck.
The "attack" is on those who try to make laws, force schools to teach religious stupidity,
and make a racist, bigoted, homophobic interpretation of "the bible" into "truth".
>
>Again you express your intolerance.
>> >What especially troubles me about the atheist movement is their
>indignance.
You wouldn't know a fucking "atheist" if you licked his/her ass, BUTTMASTER
>Yep, and those are the ones we need to fight, as they are the ones who are
>trying to restrict the religious liberties of the people of the country.
You can't name ANY law that's passed, ANY court ruling, ANY official act that precludes
ANYONE from "practicing their religion", you worthless fuckwit.
You do NOT have the right to push, harangue, shove, shout or otherwise act inappropriately
in public against the expressed wishes of those who are subject to the crap, and you don't
have any argument when you're told to keep your religious stupidity in appropriate places.
You can whine, cry, moan, and obfuscate the issue (like you used to get your worthless ass
kicked about in the 2nd amendment) because it's against the law to "shut you up"
But making fun of you, making you obey the law, is not "attacking" anything other than bad
stupidity.
---------------------------------------------------
>ladies use my tongue for your pleasure
></groups?q=author:danaraffaniello%40worldnet.
>att.net&start=210&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT>F-8&selm=
>63j187%24nji%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&rnum=226>
>swm very oral will orally worship any female that wishes to be worshipped.
>will kiss and lick your feet and butt .
>might be wiling to be your toilet paper if you
>are that aggressive >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 229
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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dpr wrote:
> "Paul Revere" <zero DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:gm5Pb.22688$zP6.12784@okepread02...
>
>>In article <100n75dsulde3 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.loogslair.com/poliwolf14.html
>>>Thank God for Freedom of Religion
>>>
>>>The holiday season is fast approaching. As just about all of us know,
>>>Christmas is an event that is rooted in Christian mythology. Although the
>>>actual event of Jesus' birth didn't actually take place on December 25th,
>>>it's been widely accepted as the foremost day in the religion. However,
>
> it's
>
>>>also a good time to point out just precarious a position this religion -
>
> and
>
>>>all religions for that matter - are finding themselves in at this point
>
> in
>
>>>our society. And it's reaching a point where we have to start taking
>
> notice
>
>>>of how our nation's spiritual traditions are being eroded to the point of
>>>crumbling.
>>>I think I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I am not a
>>>biblethumper. Seriously, when I attended a funeral last week, it was the
>>>first time I'd been to church in about a year and half. However, I do
>>>subscribe to much of the philosophies that were taught to me as a child,
>
> and
>
>>>I'm more than willing to fight for the survival of my moral foundation.
>>>Freedom of religion is under attack by a group of people who are guilty
>
> of
>
>>>the same intolerance they accuse us of performing. Atheist special
>
> interest
>
>>>groups seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
>>>Personally, I have nothing against atheists and their religious beliefs
>
> (or
>
>>>lack thereof). That's what freedom of religion is all about: everyone is
>>>free to practice their religion of choice, and nobody is allowed to force
>
> a
>
>>>religion upon anybody else. This certainly makes sense: if you look back
>
> on
>
>>>how and why this country came into being, you'll realize that religious
>>>freedom was one of the driving forces in the formation of the US.
>
> However,
>
>>>you'll also find out that not only did the prominent members of our
>>>country's heritage were deeply religious themselves. Many of the state
>>>constitutions from the original 13 colonies - not to mention the
>
> Declaration
>
>>>of Independence that basically started this whole country in the first
>>>place - make reference to a higher power that created human law and human
>>>rights.
The original 13 colonies were extensions of ENGLAND when they
were being formed, and their documents reflected that Xian
ENGLISH belief...
>>True, though many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, Franklin,
>>Washington, etc.) were Theists, rather than Christians.
>
> They believed in the same God the Christians believed in.
> And they all believed in the Christian beliefs. No matter how much you try
> to revise history you will never accomplish that.
Wrong, many are quoted as calling Organized Xianism more or less, evil.
Many of them believed that Jesus had some great sayings, but their
beliefs were as removed from Xianity as it gets.
Hence the mention of the "God of Nature" in the Declaration of Independence.
To some, that was the God of the Bible, to others, it wasn't.
The rest is a personal delusion.
>>Well, the Christian religion certainly has a proud tradition of lashing
>
> Your knowledge of the Christian religion is minimal at best.
Pot calling the Kettle, Black, AFAICT. But you aren't alone,
most Xians have more of a "folie a deux", than a religion,
rarely founded on culturally acurate interpretations, than on
the preachers viewpoint, from last Sunday.
> Keep your hatred and bigotry under control, if not maybe you should move to
> a country more to your liking, like North Korea or China, where religion is
> supressed by the state.
_You_ should move to _Islam_, where the State-Religion is mandated!
Get a _good_ taste of what you so dream of, the early Americans did,
in the "Church of England"... and found it SO distasteful, they wrote
clauses that implied separation of Church and State into the Constitution.
" . . . I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative
merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in
the Being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians. Your
opinions and writings will have effect in bringing others to reason
on this subject." - THOMAS JEFFERSON to Dr. Price Paris, January 8, 1789. >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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External
Since: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 87
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <100qinl9vnk6v64.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>"Paul Revere" <zero.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:gm5Pb.22688$zP6.12784@okepread02...
>> In article <100n75dsulde3.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>> >http://www.loogslair.com/poliwolf14.html
>> >Thank God for Freedom of Religion
>> >
>> >The holiday season is fast approaching. As just about all of us know,
>> >Christmas is an event that is rooted in Christian mythology. Although the
>> >actual event of Jesus' birth didn't actually take place on December 25th,
>> >it's been widely accepted as the foremost day in the religion. However,
>it's
>> >also a good time to point out just precarious a position this religion -
>and
>> >all religions for that matter - are finding themselves in at this point
>in
>> >our society. And it's reaching a point where we have to start taking
>notice
>> >of how our nation's spiritual traditions are being eroded to the point of
>> >crumbling.
>> >I think I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I am not a
>> >biblethumper. Seriously, when I attended a funeral last week, it was the
>> >first time I'd been to church in about a year and half. However, I do
>> >subscribe to much of the philosophies that were taught to me as a child,
>and
>> >I'm more than willing to fight for the survival of my moral foundation.
>> >Freedom of religion is under attack by a group of people who are guilty
>of
>> >the same intolerance they accuse us of performing. Atheist special
>interest
>> >groups seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
>> >Personally, I have nothing against atheists and their religious beliefs
>(or
>> >lack thereof). That's what freedom of religion is all about: everyone is
>> >free to practice their religion of choice, and nobody is allowed to force
>a
>> >religion upon anybody else. This certainly makes sense: if you look back
>on
>> >how and why this country came into being, you'll realize that religious
>> >freedom was one of the driving forces in the formation of the US.
>However,
>> >you'll also find out that not only did the prominent members of our
>> >country's heritage were deeply religious themselves. Many of the state
>> >constitutions from the original 13 colonies - not to mention the
>Declaration
>> >of Independence that basically started this whole country in the first
>> >place - make reference to a higher power that created human law and human
>> >rights.
>>
>> True, though many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, Franklin,
>> Washington, etc.) were Theists, rather than Christians.
>
>They believed in the same God the Christians believed in.
>And they all believed in the Christian beliefs. No matter how much you try
>to revise history you will never accomplish that.
>
One needn't revise history when history is on one's side.
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in
our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are
all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured,
fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one
half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and
error all over the earth.
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of
Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great
corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ.
John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and
Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered
with in these days?
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion.
Thomas Paine:
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare
so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the
Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended
imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the
liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have
found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to
secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are
mixed together.
I could go on, but you probably won't be convinced no matter what evidence is
presented because you have already made up your mind.
>>
>> >If you don't think that there's someone in charge of all this, you're
>free
>> >to do so, but in the meantime, these lawsuits and protests are really
>> >becoming tiresome. It was moronic for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to
>> >rule that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it gives
>a
>> >shout-out to God - but they wouldn't have been able to do that if someone
>> >hadn't brought the suit to them. Now, it's reached a level where atheists
>> >don't even appear to be atheist anymore - they're anti-religious. How
>else
>> >would you explain the constant bellyaching about nativity scenes in front
>of
>> >City Halls and sculptures of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? I know
>> >that there's supposed to be a degree of separation between religion and
>> >government, but let's be serious - the government isn't the one making
>those
>> >religious tributes, the people working for the government are.
>>
>> >Nowadays, the anti-religion lobby is seeking to drive any and all mention
>of
>> >religion from any place where they might see or hear it.
>>
>> I challenge you to list one example (with verifiable references) where an
>> atheist has attempted to remove ANY religious symbol from ANY property
>that
>> wasn't public property.
>
>Maybe you need to wake up. No you probably are aware of the atheist attack
>on Christians yet you deny what is going on in order to advance your goal of
>removing religion from America.
>Especially the Christian religion.
>> >But what everyone
>> >needs to understand is that freedom of religion does not mean isolation
>from
>> >religion. We must all be tolerant of each other's religious perspective.
>But
>> >the door swings both ways: if the atheists among us wish to have the
>ability
>> >to deny any spiritual beliefs, they must also allow the rest of us to
>> >practice the spiritual beliefs that we have. They don't seem to want to
>do
>> >that.
>>
>> Again you exaggerate.
>
>Again you express your intolerance.
I can't help but notice that you claim I am being intolerant, and then delete
the part of my post you are making the claim about so that others will not be
easily able to make a judgment about your claim. That seems somewhat
dishonest, though not surprising.
If pointing out that someone is exaggerating is considered evidence of
intolerence, then I will continue to be "intolerent".
>> >What especially troubles me about the atheist movement is their
>indignance.
>> >I've spoken with several atheists about this issue. And it seems like
>many
>> >of them wear their atheism like some sort of crown. I almost think that
>to
>> >some of these people, atheism is a status symbol. You certainly get that
>> >sense when their actions make it look like they feel that religion is
>below
>> >them, and as such should be kept away from them like you quarantine
>> >preschoolers from the chickenpox. One of them even said to me - point
>> >blank - that they don't even "want to know religion exists".
>> >Like I said, I'm by no means a religious zealot, but that scares me.
>>
>> Know what scares me?
>
>That the article is correct
Again you edit my post. You are a dishonest person not worth debating.
>
>> >Religion indeed does exist. Dozens of them, in fact. And we should be
>> >allowed to practice them as we choose, so long as it doesn't directly
>lock
>> >horns with the religious practices of another person. See, that's the
>most
>> >curious thing about the atheist movement - theoretically, all the
>religious
>> >imagery, traditions and philosophies prevalent in our culture shouldn't
>> >bother them at all. The First Amendment guarantees that no law can be
>passed
>> >that infringes on one's freedom of religion. They have no religion, so
>how
>> >can we infringe on it?
>>
>> Many atheists make a religion of Disbelief.
>
>Yep, and those are the ones we need to fight, as they are the ones who are
>trying to restrict the religious liberties of the people of the country.
>They are the ones who have declared war on the morals and culture of
>America.
I see, you need to "fight" those whose "religion" is atheism in the name of
religious freedom for all.
>> >Of course, many of them denounce the few instances
>> >where the government does acknowledge its Christian roots - such as the
>> >words "under God" in the Pledge or the phrase "In God we Trust" on our
>> >money - but one of the things you have to do in order to live peacefully
>in
>> >a free society is learn to swallow a little bilge.
>> >I personally don't think
>> >the government has any constitutional right to mandate that abortion be
>> >legal, but obviously the courts see otherwise, and honestly there are
>bigger
>> >fish to fry in this country than that.
>> >This country's heritage is under fire by a small minority of people who
>> >think that the First Amendment was designed to sterilized the public
>square
>> >from any traces of religion, when it's obvious that religion is one of
>the
>> >forces behind the creation of this country.
>> >It comes to me as no surprise
>> >that the continuous fraying of our moral fabric is running parallel with
>the
>> >subversion of religion in our society. It's one thing to want amnesty
>from
>> >persecution because your beliefs don't concur with the majority, but it's
>> >another matter entirely when you're actively seeking to wipe out religion
>> >entirely.
>> >It's only a matter of time before even fair-weather religious
>> >types like myself start to lash out against the atheist movement - that
>is,
>> >if it hasn't already.
>> >
>>
>> Well, the Christian religion certainly has a proud tradition of lashing
>
>Your knowledge of the Christian religion is minimal at best.
>Keep your hatred and bigotry under control, if not maybe you should move to
>a country more to your liking, like North Korea or China, where religion is
>supressed by the state.
>
I have expressed no hatred. I have expressed no bigotry, and I am not an
atheist.
I just have an open mind so I can actually listen to what people actually
say without having to filter it through a series of "beliefs".
And my knowledge of the Christian religion is *VASTLY* superior to yours.
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
Osama bin Laden, October, 2001 (quoted in NewsMax.com 2/1/02) >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 362
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Paul Revere" <zero.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:8nePb.21569$rh5.1926@okepread04...
> In article <100qinl9vnk6v64.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
> >"Paul Revere" <zero.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:gm5Pb.22688$zP6.12784@okepread02...
> >> In article <100n75dsulde3.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
> >> >http://www.loogslair.com/poliwolf14.html
> >> >Thank God for Freedom of Religion
> >> >
> >> >The holiday season is fast approaching. As just about all of us know,
> >> >Christmas is an event that is rooted in Christian mythology. Although
the
> >> >actual event of Jesus' birth didn't actually take place on December
25th,
> >> >it's been widely accepted as the foremost day in the religion.
However,
> >it's
> >> >also a good time to point out just precarious a position this
religion -
> >and
> >> >all religions for that matter - are finding themselves in at this
point
> >in
> >> >our society. And it's reaching a point where we have to start taking
> >notice
> >> >of how our nation's spiritual traditions are being eroded to the point
of
> >> >crumbling.
> >> >I think I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I am not a
> >> >biblethumper. Seriously, when I attended a funeral last week, it was
the
> >> >first time I'd been to church in about a year and half. However, I do
> >> >subscribe to much of the philosophies that were taught to me as a
child,
> >and
> >> >I'm more than willing to fight for the survival of my moral
foundation.
> >> >Freedom of religion is under attack by a group of people who are
guilty
> >of
> >> >the same intolerance they accuse us of performing. Atheist special
> >interest
> >> >groups seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
> >> >Personally, I have nothing against atheists and their religious
beliefs
> >(or
> >> >lack thereof). That's what freedom of religion is all about: everyone
is
> >> >free to practice their religion of choice, and nobody is allowed to
force
> >a
> >> >religion upon anybody else. This certainly makes sense: if you look
back
> >on
> >> >how and why this country came into being, you'll realize that
religious
> >> >freedom was one of the driving forces in the formation of the US.
> >However,
> >> >you'll also find out that not only did the prominent members of our
> >> >country's heritage were deeply religious themselves. Many of the state
> >> >constitutions from the original 13 colonies - not to mention the
> >Declaration
> >> >of Independence that basically started this whole country in the first
> >> >place - make reference to a higher power that created human law and
human
> >> >rights.
> >>
> >> True, though many of the founding fathers (Jefferson, Franklin,
> >> Washington, etc.) were Theists, rather than Christians.
> >
> >They believed in the same God the Christians believed in.
> >And they all believed in the Christian beliefs. No matter how much you
try
> >to revise history you will never accomplish that.
> >
>
> One needn't revise history when history is on one's side.
That is what your side is trying to do.
> >>
> >> >If you don't think that there's someone in charge of all this, you're
> >free
> >> >to do so, but in the meantime, these lawsuits and protests are really
> >> >becoming tiresome. It was moronic for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals
to
> >> >rule that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it
gives
> >a
> >> >shout-out to God - but they wouldn't have been able to do that if
someone
> >> >hadn't brought the suit to them. Now, it's reached a level where
atheists
> >> >don't even appear to be atheist anymore - they're anti-religious. How
> >else
> >> >would you explain the constant bellyaching about nativity scenes in
front
> >of
> >> >City Halls and sculptures of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? I
know
> >> >that there's supposed to be a degree of separation between religion
and
> >> >government, but let's be serious - the government isn't the one making
> >those
> >> >religious tributes, the people working for the government are.
> >>
> >> >Nowadays, the anti-religion lobby is seeking to drive any and all
mention
> >of
> >> >religion from any place where they might see or hear it.
> >>
> >> I challenge you to list one example (with verifiable references) where
an
> >> atheist has attempted to remove ANY religious symbol from ANY property
> >that
> >> wasn't public property.
> >
> >Maybe you need to wake up. No you probably are aware of the atheist
attack
> >on Christians yet you deny what is going on in order to advance your goal
of
> >removing religion from America.
> >Especially the Christian religion.
> >> >But what everyone
> >> >needs to understand is that freedom of religion does not mean
isolation
> >from
> >> >religion. We must all be tolerant of each other's religious
perspective.
> >But
> >> >the door swings both ways: if the atheists among us wish to have the
> >ability
> >> >to deny any spiritual beliefs, they must also allow the rest of us to
> >> >practice the spiritual beliefs that we have. They don't seem to want
to
> >do
> >> >that.
> >>
> >> Again you exaggerate.
> >
> >Again you express your intolerance.
> >> >What especially troubles me about the atheist movement is their
> >indignance.
> >> >I've spoken with several atheists about this issue. And it seems like
> >many
> >> >of them wear their atheism like some sort of crown. I almost think
that
> >to
> >> >some of these people, atheism is a status symbol. You certainly get
that
> >> >sense when their actions make it look like they feel that religion is
> >below
> >> >them, and as such should be kept away from them like you quarantine
> >> >preschoolers from the chickenpox. One of them even said to me - point
> >> >blank - that they don't even "want to know religion exists".
> >> >Like I said, I'm by no means a religious zealot, but that scares me.
> >>
> >> Know what scares me?
> >
> >That the article is correct
> >
> >> >Religion indeed does exist. Dozens of them, in fact. And we should be
> >> >allowed to practice them as we choose, so long as it doesn't directly
> >lock
> >> >horns with the religious practices of another person. See, that's the
> >most
> >> >curious thing about the atheist movement - theoretically, all the
> >religious
> >> >imagery, traditions and philosophies prevalent in our culture
shouldn't
> >> >bother them at all. The First Amendment guarantees that no law can be
> >passed
> >> >that infringes on one's freedom of religion. They have no religion, so
> >how
> >> >can we infringe on it?
> >>
> >> Many atheists make a religion of Disbelief.
> >
> >Yep, and those are the ones we need to fight, as they are the ones who
are
> >trying to restrict the religious liberties of the people of the country.
> >They are the ones who have declared war on the morals and culture of
> >America.
>
> >> >Of course, many of them denounce the few instances
> >> >where the government does acknowledge its Christian roots - such as
the
> >> >words "under God" in the Pledge or the phrase "In God we Trust" on our
> >> >money - but one of the things you have to do in order to live
peacefully
> >in
> >> >a free society is learn to swallow a little bilge.
> >> >I personally don't think
> >> >the government has any constitutional right to mandate that abortion
be
> >> >legal, but obviously the courts see otherwise, and honestly there are
> >bigger
> >> >fish to fry in this country than that.
> >> >This country's heritage is under fire by a small minority of people
who
> >> >think that the First Amendment was designed to sterilized the public
> >square
> >> >from any traces of religion, when it's obvious that religion is one of
> >the
> >> >forces behind the creation of this country.
> >> >It comes to me as no surprise
> >> >that the continuous fraying of our moral fabric is running parallel
with
> >the
> >> >subversion of religion in our society. It's one thing to want amnesty
> >from
> >> >persecution because your beliefs don't concur with the majority, but
it's
> >> >another matter entirely when you're actively seeking to wipe out
religion
> >> >entirely.
> >> >It's only a matter of time before even fair-weather religious
> >> >types like myself start to lash out against the atheist movement -
that
> >is,
> >> >if it hasn't already.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, the Christian religion certainly has a proud tradition of lashing
> >
> >Your knowledge of the Christian religion is minimal at best.
> >Keep your hatred and bigotry under control, if not maybe you should move
to
> >a country more to your liking, like North Korea or China, where religion
is
> >supressed by the state. >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:25:31 -0900, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>"Paul Revere" <zero DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
What a dipshit you are BUTTMASTER
You can't even post correctly
---------------------------------------------------
>ladies use my tongue for your pleasure
></groups?q=author:danaraffaniello%40worldnet.
>att.net&start=210&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT>F-8&selm=
>63j187%24nji%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&rnum=226>
>swm very oral will orally worship any female that wishes to be worshipped.
>will kiss and lick your feet and butt .
>might be wiling to be your toilet paper if you
>are that aggressive >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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External
Since: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 87
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Thank God for Freedom of Religion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
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In article <100qvj81lplptb3.RemoveThis@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>"Paul Revere" <zero.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:8nePb.21569$rh5.1926@okepread04...
>> In article <100qinl9vnk6v64.RemoveThis@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>> >"Paul Revere" <zero.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> >news:gm5Pb.22688$zP6.12784@okepread02...
>> >> In article <100n75dsulde3.RemoveThis@corp.supernews.com>, "dpr" <why> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> One needn't revise history when history is on one's side.
>
>That is what your side is trying to do.
Try to find somebody your own age to "debate", I'm going to be busy with
adults for a while.
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
Osama bin Laden, October, 2001 (quoted in NewsMax.com 2/1/02) >> Stay informed about: Thank God for Freedom of Religion |
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