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Since: Dec 09, 2003
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:19 pm
Post subject: Value of GMAT score
Archived from groups: soc>college>admissions (more info?)
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Hello,
since I just took my GMAT exam yesterday and it turned out to be a score of
690 I was wondering just how valuable such a score really is. I realise that
in combination with a convincing rest of the application package (perfect
TOEFL score, convincing letters of recommendation, good essays, plenty of
international and work experience in relevant fields etc.) this should be
plenty to get me in almost any MBA program out there (ok, Stanford maybe
tough since I read that their average GMAT score is >700). But since top
notch programs are also usually the most expensive the question remains what
my chances are with a GMAT of 690 and all the rest to be applicable for
merit-based scholarships. Does anyone have experiences? How should I go
about to get hold of these scholarships, what is the best strategy? Will I
only have to indicate that I would like to be considered for them or is it
useful to further "market" my application after I sent it in? Do you know of
any significant differences in how US compared to European schools handle
scholarships?
Thanks in advance for any advice or insight.
Cheers from Germany,
Andy |
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External
Since: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Andreas" wrote in message
> Hello,
>
> since I just took my GMAT exam yesterday and it turned out to be a score
of
> 690 I was wondering just how valuable such a score really is. I realise
that
> in combination with a convincing rest of the application package (perfect
> TOEFL score, convincing letters of recommendation, good essays, plenty of
> international and work experience in relevant fields etc.) this should be
> plenty to get me in almost any MBA program out there (ok, Stanford maybe
> tough since I read that their average GMAT score is >700). But since top
> notch programs are also usually the most expensive the question remains
what
> my chances are with a GMAT of 690 and all the rest to be applicable for
> merit-based scholarships. Does anyone have experiences?
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but if you're looking at the most elite
American schools (i.e. top 10), you should notice that the entering classes
of the majority of the elite schools now have average GMAT scores that are
higher than yours. Pick up the latest copy of the B-school rankings from
USNews or Businessweek and you can see for yourself. For example, a check
of the 2002 Businessweek B-school statistics (Businessweek conducts its
rankings every 2 years and so there are no 2003 statistics from
Businessweek) indicate the following average scores:
Harvard -705
Yale - 698
Northwestern/Kellogg - 700
UPenn/Wharton - 703
MIT/Sloan - 707
Berkeley/Haas - 703
Dartmouth/Tuck - 695
Columbia - 711
UCLA/Anderson - 700
NYU/Stern - 700
Duke/Fuqua - 701
So if we're talking about the elite American B-schools, then all I can say
is that while your GMAT score doesn't take you out of the running, it's
below the average of the entering class, so your score gives you no
advantage, and certainly gives you no advantage if you're trying to get a
scholarship. A school like Harvard only admits about 10% of its applicants
and therefore the odds of admission were already significantly against you
(like they are against everybody else), and since your GMAT scores put you
(slightly) behind the curve compared to your competition, the rest of your
application will have to be very impressive indeed simply to gain admission,
much less, a scholarship. I know that may sound harsh, but that's the
reality of the situation. Keep in mind that the elite schools routinely
reject applicants with perfect-800 GMAT scores.
Now, if you're talking about non-elite American B-schools, then that's a
different story. The less elite you're talking about, obviously the better
chances for you to land that scholarship.
>How should I go
> about to get hold of these scholarships, what is the best strategy? Will I
> only have to indicate that I would like to be considered for them or is it
> useful to further "market" my application after I sent it in? Do you know
of
> any significant differences in how US compared to European schools handle
> scholarships?
I have no idea how Europe does their scholarships, but to get an American
scholarship, it is useful to build your application with the scholarship in
mind. For example, you should emphasize in your essays the activities that
develop your case for why you should obtain a scholarship.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice or insight.
>
> Cheers from Germany,
>
> Andy
>
> |
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External
Since: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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A score that's only 10 points below the schools' average is close
enough to not be a problem. 10 points is immaterial.
A 690 is a competitive score and if your other stats are strong, it
shouldn't hold you back. However, if you truly are targeting top 10
and think you can improve with a retake, then study and go for it. >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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External
Since: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Mary" wrote in message
> A score that's only 10 points below the schools' average is close
> enough to not be a problem. 10 points is immaterial.
But on the other hand, it's not an advantage and that's precisely my point.
If you read the original post, you should get the distinct tone that the
original poster feels that his score is useful to gain admission to any
school he wants (except Stanford) with a merit-scholarship. Andy, if I have
misinterpreted your tone, then by all means jump in here. But I think you
can tell from simple inference that he believes that Stanford is the only
school that has a 700+ average score, which is false. It was true in the
past, but B-school admissions have become significantly more competitive in
the last few years and as a result, average GMAT scores have risen quickly.
I agree with you that being 10 points below the average is immaterial in
terms of admission, but in no uncertain terms can it be construed as an
advantage.
>
> A 690 is a competitive score and if your other stats are strong, it
> shouldn't hold you back. However, if you truly are targeting top 10
> and think you can improve with a retake, then study and go for it. >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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External
Since: Dec 09, 2003
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"nrf" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>
> "Mary" wrote in message
>
> > A score that's only 10 points below the schools' average is close
> > enough to not be a problem. 10 points is immaterial.
>
> But on the other hand, it's not an advantage and that's precisely my
point.
> If you read the original post, you should get the distinct tone that the
> original poster feels that his score is useful to gain admission to any
> school he wants (except Stanford) with a merit-scholarship. Andy, if I
have
> misinterpreted your tone, then by all means jump in here. But I think you
> can tell from simple inference that he believes that Stanford is the only
> school that has a 700+ average score, which is false. It was true in the
> past, but B-school admissions have become significantly more competitive
in
> the last few years and as a result, average GMAT scores have risen
quickly.
> I agree with you that being 10 points below the average is immaterial in
> terms of admission, but in no uncertain terms can it be construed as an
> advantage.
>
HI!,
well, indeed, I did not have the latest stats there. Mine were from 2002 and
then it seemed that Stanford was the only top-B-school that had a GMAT
average above 700.
Anyway, as I am *not* targeting any of these schools for the pure reason
that they only offer 2-year programs, I am not discouraged at all. There are
only a hand full of 1-year programs at competitive US-schools anyhow (like
Babson College, Duke, ...) which is why I mostly target European schools and
/or joint programs between European and US schools (such as the Temple
International MBA or University of South Carolina's programs). Hence, my
last question in the OP about the differences.
What I figure now is that, yes, 690 is pretty competitive and *might* bring
you in any school out there (even the top10), while is probably not enough
for merit-based scholarships in these top10. However, the score (always seen
in combination with a strong overall application) seems good enough to hope
for chances in merit-based scholarships at schools with GMAT average around
or below 650 (which includes in my view almost all second tier schools and
also those I mentioned with the 1-year and/or joint programs). I already
talked to some schools and the result was that at most places a score >650
gives you good chances, >700 sometimes even gives you a full scholarship.
Any further information on that, of course, would be highly appreciated 
In any case, I am not *dependent* on scholarships and I certainly will not
make them a k.o. criteria, but if given the choice between two on my short
list of choices with the one offering a scholarship or tuition waivers and
the other not, the choice would be clear ....
Cheers from Germany,
Andy >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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Since: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Andreas" wrote in message
>
> "nrf" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>
> >
> > "Mary" wrote in message
> >
> > > A score that's only 10 points below the schools' average is close
> > > enough to not be a problem. 10 points is immaterial.
> >
> > But on the other hand, it's not an advantage and that's precisely my
> point.
> > If you read the original post, you should get the distinct tone that the
> > original poster feels that his score is useful to gain admission to any
> > school he wants (except Stanford) with a merit-scholarship. Andy, if I
> have
> > misinterpreted your tone, then by all means jump in here. But I think
you
> > can tell from simple inference that he believes that Stanford is the
only
> > school that has a 700+ average score, which is false. It was true in
the
> > past, but B-school admissions have become significantly more competitive
> in
> > the last few years and as a result, average GMAT scores have risen
> quickly.
> > I agree with you that being 10 points below the average is immaterial in
> > terms of admission, but in no uncertain terms can it be construed as an
> > advantage.
> >
>
> HI!,
>
> well, indeed, I did not have the latest stats there. Mine were from 2002
and
> then it seemed that Stanford was the only top-B-school that had a GMAT
> average above 700.
>
> Anyway, as I am *not* targeting any of these schools for the pure reason
> that they only offer 2-year programs, I am not discouraged at all. There
are
> only a hand full of 1-year programs at competitive US-schools anyhow (like
> Babson College, Duke, ...) which is why I mostly target European schools
and
> /or joint programs between European and US schools (such as the Temple
> International MBA or University of South Carolina's programs). Hence, my
> last question in the OP about the differences.
>
> What I figure now is that, yes, 690 is pretty competitive and *might*
bring
> you in any school out there (even the top10), while is probably not enough
> for merit-based scholarships in these top10. However, the score (always
seen
> in combination with a strong overall application) seems good enough to
hope
> for chances in merit-based scholarships at schools with GMAT average
around
> or below 650 (which includes in my view almost all second tier schools and
> also those I mentioned with the 1-year and/or joint programs). I already
> talked to some schools and the result was that at most places a score >650
> gives you good chances, >700 sometimes even gives you a full scholarship.
> Any further information on that, of course, would be highly appreciated
Aha, well now that you've clarified your position, I must say that I agree
with you. Except for those schools that I mentioned, I agree that you are
competitive.
It is indeed true that most highly prestigious American MBA programs are 2
years long, or even longer if you do it part-time. Even those high-prestige
schools like Northwestern that do run 1-year programs do so with numerous
restrictions and caveats. Essentially, it is understood that to do an MBA
in the United States is to invest 2 years of your time. Europe is
different and has a mixture of both 1 and 2 year schools. Which one is
better for you is a personal choice.
>
> In any case, I am not *dependent* on scholarships and I certainly will not
> make them a k.o. criteria, but if given the choice between two on my short
> list of choices with the one offering a scholarship or tuition waivers and
> the other not, the choice would be clear ....
>
> Cheers from Germany,
> Andy
>
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I know I am a bit late to post here, but Andreas if you are still
reading... I would disagree with NRF that your score is not a plus.
Let's assume for the moment that the GMAT is the ONLY criterion for
acceptance (bear with me). If 100 people apply to harvard and 10
people are accepted, and of those 10 accepted, 5 score lower than your
690 (assuming that 690-710 is the average at this school) then you
have essentially scored better than 95% of applicants that year. Just
as importantly you have scored better than half of those ACCEPTED.
Remember that is the average of ACCEPTED applicants, not ALL
applicants.
Of course, GMAT is not the only measure of acceptance, but you have
put yourself right in the running in this regard, with a 690. Good
work!
Now, if you had scored a 650-675 I would say that you might want to
highlight other aspects of your application. But still not a negative
and shows you have mental capability to succeed.
Craig >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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Since: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Craig" wrote in message
> I know I am a bit late to post here, but Andreas if you are still
> reading... I would disagree with NRF that your score is not a plus.
> Let's assume for the moment that the GMAT is the ONLY criterion for
> acceptance (bear with me). If 100 people apply to harvard and 10
> people are accepted, and of those 10 accepted, 5 score lower than your
> 690 (assuming that 690-710 is the average at this school) then you
> have essentially scored better than 95% of applicants that year. Just
> as importantly you have scored better than half of those ACCEPTED.
> Remember that is the average of ACCEPTED applicants, not ALL
> applicants.
Well, your analysis oversimplifies things. Yes, I know what you're talking
about when you say that you want to simplify your model to only look at GMAT
scores, but the fact is, doing so makes things too simple. The reality is
that plenty of people with tremendously high GMAT scores, higher than the
average, and some with 800's, will be rejected from Harvard because of
weaknesses in the rest of the app. You therefore cannot make the simple
conclusion that you are outscoring a tremendously high number of applicants.
The average score for the rejected applicants may well be higher than
Andy's. I don't know if it is, but it's certainly possible for a place like
Harvard.
Furthermore, in the case of Harvard (and the othe schools we talked about),
the scores are quite a bit above what Andy got. In the case of Harvard
class of 2005, the average was 708 for the entering class. Yes, the
entering class is not quite exactly the same as the admitted class but for a
place like Harvard that has an extraordinarily high yield ratio (very few
people who are admitted to Harvard will turn it down), the 2 classes are
going to be very close. It's therefore difficult to see how to construe a
690 as an advantage when 708 is the relevant average. Obviously it's an
advantage when compared to people who have a 650 or a 600, but in this
context, I don't think it can be construed as an advantage, all things
considered. Yes, he will be better than a lot of other rejected candidates
and some admitted ones, but unless you happen to have a score that is above
the mean, it's still not really an advantage. He's in the running, but he
doesn't have a "special weapon".
>
> Of course, GMAT is not the only measure of acceptance, but you have
> put yourself right in the running in this regard, with a 690. Good
> work!
See above. I agree he is in the running, but to me that's not the same
thing as saying he has an advantage.
>
> Now, if you had scored a 650-675 I would say that you might want to
> highlight other aspects of your application. But still not a negative
> and shows you have mental capability to succeed.
>
> Craig >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of GMAT score [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Not to belabour the issue, or to over-simplify, since I do not
disagree with what you say. I just wanted to reinforce a point that
average GMAT scores represent the average of those accepted, not of
all those who apply. Therefore, if you score at or near the average,
you are in pretty good shape - insofar as the GMAT is concerned.
Scoring below the average student body should not be a discouragement,
as many applicants see it.
Ultimately, what I am getting at is that a 690 is a very good score
(better, in fact, than 50% of students accepted to top-10 schools). Of
course, other meterials will need to be outstanding to be admitted to
harvard, but 690 is a good start.
Craig >> Stay informed about: Value of GMAT score |
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