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buckeye_ELO

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:33 pm
Post subject: Major setback for religious right
Archived from groups: alt>atheism, others (more info?)

US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=...564&tw=

This means all those state "Blaine" amendments in state constitutions
stand. The court rejected the discrimination argument advanced by ACLJ's
Jay Skeulow

That means that the voucher battle will continue to be fought on the state
level and that in various states vouchers can be held to be
unconstitutional as per the state Constitution.

What is really remarkable is Rehnquist wrote the Majority opinion. I am
impressed, :O)

It has been some time since the USSC ruled in favor of strict separation
with regards to public money and religion pertaining to schools be it k-12
or higher ed.

Where is Malcolm now?

Now, in recent years anyways, when the USSC had two church state cases it
has usually split them, ruling in favor od separation for one and against
for the other.

This will be interesting to see how the Pledge case goes now.
Will it be a split one for and one against separation or a clean sweep for
separation this year?

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ZenIsWhen

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<buckeye_ELO.TakeThisOut@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
>
> US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
>
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
&tw=wn_wire_story

First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
Right.

Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........

"
Scalia wondered what would happen next.

"Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
at public expense?""



This is a Supreme Court justice?

This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
Reich wing zealots he is supporting!

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In The Darkness

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 229



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

ZenIsWhen wrote:
> <buckeye_ELO.TakeThisOut@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
> "Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
> ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
> at public expense?""

YES!

"The power of Prayer can move mountains!"

-=]PROVE IT[=-


Razz


> This is a Supreme Court justice?
>
> This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
> Reich wing zealots he is supporting!
>
>
>
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quibbler

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 22



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <103q32dl5ocusb2.RemoveThis@corp.supernews.com>, ZenIsWhen.RemoveThis@anywhere.com
says...
>
> <buckeye_ELO.RemoveThis@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
> >
> > US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
> >
> http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
> &tw=wn_wire_story
>
> First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
> indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
> Right.
>
> Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
>
> "
> Scalia wondered what would happen next.
>
> "Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
> ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
> at public expense?""
>
>
>
> This is a Supreme Court justice?
>
> This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
> Reich wing zealots he is supporting!

Yep and Bush's comment about how he'd like more judges like Scalia is
even more scary.

See this link where even a conservative website admits that Bush wants to
pack the court with Scalia clones.
http://committeeforjustice.org/contents/news/news062303_weeklystandard.sh
tml


--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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Brian Westley

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 24



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

buckeye_ELO DeleteThis @nospam.net writes:
>US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
>http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564&tw=wn_wire_story

>This means all those state "Blaine" amendments in state constitutions
>stand. The court rejected the discrimination argument advanced by ACLJ's
>Jay Skeulow

>That means that the voucher battle will continue to be fought on the state
>level and that in various states vouchers can be held to be
>unconstitutional as per the state Constitution.

>What is really remarkable is Rehnquist wrote the Majority opinion. I am
>impressed, :O)

Yep, that's a surprise.
Here's the opinion in adobe acrobat:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/03pdf/02-1315.pdf

>It has been some time since the USSC ruled in favor of strict separation
>with regards to public money and religion pertaining to schools be it k-12
>or higher ed.

>Where is Malcolm now?

>Now, in recent years anyways, when the USSC had two church state cases it
>has usually split them, ruling in favor od separation for one and against
>for the other.

>This will be interesting to see how the Pledge case goes now.
>Will it be a split one for and one against separation or a clean sweep for
>separation this year?

I'm still betting a 5-3 vote in Newdow's favor.

---
Merlyn LeRoy
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Brian Westley

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 24



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

And by the way, this decision is another instance of the
supreme court reversing that kwaaaazy 9th circuit!
Conservatives should be celebrating...

---
Merlyn LeRoy
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Dana

External


Since: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 300



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:22 am
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<buckeye_ELO.RemoveThis@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
>
> US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
>
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=...564&tw=
>
> This means all those state

It actually means the state will no longer pay any tuition.
What a way to save tax money, get the state out of paying for college
educations. No more grants, and no more aid.
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Dana

External


Since: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 300



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen RemoveThis @anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:103q32dl5ocusb2@corp.supernews.com...
>
> <buckeye_ELO RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
> >
> > US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
> >
>
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
> &tw=wn_wire_story
>
> First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
> indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
> Right.
>
> Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
>
> "
> Scalia wondered what would happen next.
>
> "Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
> ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
> at public expense?""
>
>
>
> This is a Supreme Court justice?
>
> This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
> Reich wing zealots he is supporting!

So according to you it is ok to discriminate against the religious, but we
have to bend over backwards and give the gays whatever they want.


>
>
>
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Roger

External


Since: Dec 25, 2003
Posts: 1038



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:49 am
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Dana" <1> wrote in message
news:0a7b844bc8b71d0f26d676dd63e27fab@news.meganetnews.com...
> "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen DeleteThis @anywhere.com> wrote in message
> news:103q32dl5ocusb2@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > <buckeye_ELO DeleteThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
> > news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
> > >
> > > US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
> > >
> >
>
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
> > &tw=wn_wire_story
> >
> > First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
> > indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
> > Right.
> >
> > Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
> >
> > "
> > Scalia wondered what would happen next.
> >
> > "Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
> > ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the
clergy
> > at public expense?""
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a Supreme Court justice?
> >
> > This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
> > Reich wing zealots he is supporting!
>
> So according to you it is ok to discriminate against the religious, but we
> have to bend over backwards and give the gays whatever they want.

Read the 1st amendment for the reason why.
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stoney

External


Since: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 251



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:33:42 -0500, buckeye_ELO.RemoveThis@nospam.net, Message ID:
<ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2.RemoveThis@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;

>
>US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
>http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564&tw=wn_wire_story
>
>This means all those state "Blaine" amendments in state constitutions
>stand. The court rejected the discrimination argument advanced by ACLJ's
>Jay Skeulow
>
>That means that the voucher battle will continue to be fought on the state
>level and that in various states vouchers can be held to be
>unconstitutional as per the state Constitution.
>
>What is really remarkable is Rehnquist wrote the Majority opinion. I am
>impressed, :O)
>
>It has been some time since the USSC ruled in favor of strict separation
>with regards to public money and religion pertaining to schools be it k-12
>or higher ed.
>
>Where is Malcolm now?
>
>Now, in recent years anyways, when the USSC had two church state cases it
>has usually split them, ruling in favor od separation for one and against
>for the other.
>
>This will be interesting to see how the Pledge case goes now.
>Will it be a split one for and one against separation or a clean sweep for
>separation this year?

/article
Wednesday, February 25, 2004 2:14 p.m. ET

By James Vicini

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court upheld on Wednesday a
government scholarship program that bars any money for college students
who pursue a degree in theology, an important ruling reaffirming
church-state separation.


By a 7-2 vote, the high court declared Washington state's program does
not violate the constitutional right to the free exercise of religion.
The program, which gives scholarships to needy and academically gifted
students, excludes vocational religious instruction.

The ruling has national significance as Washington is one of about 37
states to forbid public financing of religious instruction. It was a
departure from a series of recent rulings that allowed more state
involvement with religious activities.

Groups advocating church-state separation hailed the ruling for
reaffirming that states cannot be forced to fund religious instruction.
Those who challenged the program denounced the decision that "clearly
sanctions religious discrimination."

A degree in theology means the degree would be "devotional in nature and
designed to induce religious faith," training the student for the
clergy, according to the ruling. The student at issue in the case wanted
to become a church pastor.

"Training someone to lead a congregation is an essentially religious
endeavor," Chief Justice William Rehnquist said in the opinion. "Indeed,
majoring in devotional theology is akin to a religious calling as well
as an academic pursuit."

The ruling was a defeat for Joshua Davey, who was awarded a scholarship
in 1999 under the state's Promise Scholarship Program for high school
graduates.

Davey enrolled in Northwest College, a Christian school affiliated with
the Assembly of God in Kirkland, Washington. He declared a double major
in business and pastoral ministries.

When Davey learned students who pursue a degree in theology cannot
receive any state-funded financial aid, he gave up the scholarship so he
could pursue the major. Davey then sued.

STATE CHOOSES NOT TO FUND RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION

Rehnquist wrote in the 12-page opinion that the state has merely chosen
not to fund a distinct category of religious instruction.

He said most states around the time of the founding of the country
placed formal prohibitions against using tax funds to support the
ministry.

Nothing in the history of the law or the operation of the program
suggested animosity toward religion, Rehnquist said.

Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas dissented. Scalia said the
program discriminated against religion.

Scalia wondered what would happen next.

"Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the
clergy at public expense?"

The Rev. Barry Lynn of the group Americans United for Separation of
Church and State said, "This ruling is a huge defeat for those who want
to force taxpayers to pay for religious schooling and other ministries."

Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice
who argued the case for Davey, said the decision "clearly sanctions
religious discrimination."

He said the court "missed an important opportunity to protect the
constitutional rights of all students."

Davey, who graduated from the college, changed his mind about a career
as a minister. He decided he wanted to be an attorney, and is enrolled
at Harvard University's law school.

Copyright © 2003 Reuters Limited.



Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"

When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert

alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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ZenIsWhen

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> "Dana" <1> wrote in message
> news:0a7b844bc8b71d0f26d676dd63e27fab@news.meganetnews.com...
> > "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen DeleteThis @anywhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:103q32dl5ocusb2@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > <buckeye_ELO DeleteThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
> > > news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
> > > >
> > > > US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
> > > &tw=wn_wire_story
> > >
> > > First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one
that
> > > indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the
Religious
> > > Right.
> > >
> > > Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
> > >
> > > "
> > > Scalia wondered what would happen next.
> > >
> > > "Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
> > > ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the
> clergy
> > > at public expense?""
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a Supreme Court justice?
> > >
> > > This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant
fanatical
> > > Reich wing zealots he is supporting!
> >
> > So according to you it is ok to discriminate against the religious, but
we
> > have to bend over backwards and give the gays whatever they want.

No. It's not "OK" to give gays whatever they want.
Neither is it "OK" to discriminate against citizens of the United States by
denying them rights and privileges given other citizens.

Religions, no matter how many times ignorant people keep bellowing it, are
not discriminated against!
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In The Darkness

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 229



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dana wrote:

> "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen RemoveThis @anywhere.com> wrote in message
> news:103q32dl5ocusb2@corp.supernews.com...
>
>><buckeye_ELO RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
>>news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
>>
>>>US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
>>>
>>
> http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
>
>>&tw=wn_wire_story
>>
>>First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
>>indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
>>Right.
>>
>>Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
>>
>>"
>>Scalia wondered what would happen next.
>>
>>"Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
>>ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
>>at public expense?""
>>
>>
>>
>>This is a Supreme Court justice?
>>
>>This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
>>Reich wing zealots he is supporting!
>
>
> So according to you it is ok to discriminate against the religious, but we
> have to bend over backwards and give the gays whatever they want.

You only have to let them be. Remember, and this seems to be
a challenge to the right... you are taking away -their- rights,
not the other way around.


>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
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William Klee

External


Since: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 5



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <c1l4ke$8g1$3@news.onecall.net>, In The Darkness
<north DeleteThis @onecall.net> wrote:

> Dana wrote:
>
> > "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen DeleteThis @anywhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:103q32dl5ocusb2@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >><buckeye_ELO DeleteThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>>US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
> >>>
> >>
> > http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
> >
> >>&tw=wn_wire_story
> >>
> >>First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
> >>indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
> >>Right.
> >>
> >>Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
> >>
> >>"
> >>Scalia wondered what would happen next.
> >>
> >>"Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
> >>ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
> >>at public expense?""
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>This is a Supreme Court justice?
> >>
> >>This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
> >>Reich wing zealots he is supporting!
> >
> >
> > So according to you it is ok to discriminate against the religious, but we
> > have to bend over backwards and give the gays whatever they want.
>
> You only have to let them be. Remember, and this seems to be
> a challenge to the right... you are taking away -their- rights,
> not the other way around.

But it's their right to take away other's rights that's being taken
away. Apparently these religious types think rights is a zero-sum
affair; that there are only so many rights to go around and that you
can only gain rights by taking them away from others.

--
....and in elder days there were wars in the Heavens between the Ibemmeraphim
and the Angels of the Apple of Knowledge...
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stoney

External


Since: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 251



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:58:00 -0500, "ZenIsWhen"
<ZenIsWhen.DeleteThis@anywhere.com>, Message ID:
<103q32dl5ocusb2.DeleteThis@corp.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;

>
><buckeye_ELO.DeleteThis@nospam.net> wrote in message
>news:ik1q3055v19pv7s7ufesb703f9bfhmgcv2@4ax.com...
>>
>> US Top Court Upholds Religion Scholarship Ban
>>
>http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=825564
>&tw=wn_wire_story
>
>First of all ... I would have used a different header - perhaps one that
>indicates the Constitution was defend AGAINST attacks from the Religious
>Right.
>
>Second ........ this is a quote from the article.........
>
>"
>Scalia wondered what would happen next.
>
>"Will we deny priests and nuns their prescription drug benefits on the
>ground that taxpayers' freedom of conscience forbids medicating the clergy
>at public expense?""
>
>
>
>This is a Supreme Court justice?
>
>This STUPID statement makes him look exactly like the ignorant fanatical
>Reich wing zealots he is supporting!

That's because Scalia *is* an ignorant fanatical Reich wing zealot.



Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"

When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert

alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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Western World

External


Since: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:04 am
Post subject: Re: Major setback for religious right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>atheism, others (more info?)

Buckeye wrote:

>What is really remarkable is Rehnquist
>wrote the Majority opinion. I am impressed,    

I was equally stoned by the event. A-fuqqin-amazing~! SAY WHAT~!~?
Shocking I say old chap~!~! 
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