Our College Selection Update

Your daughter will get an excellent education at any one of these
schools - the most important thing now is "fit." Where does she want
to go? Where will she feel most comfortable? With good grades, any one
of these schools will get her into a good medical school (if that's
what she still wants in four years - have you seen the movie "American
Chai") And I disagree, Dartmouth is worth $2000 more than Amherst, IF
that is where your daughter wants to go to school. If Bowdoin is where
she wants to go - then that is the best school for her. No one but
your daughter can help you with this one. I'm a big fan of
www.studentsreview.com - because the site really gives you what
students think - the dirt on each school rather than the glossy
admissions, rankings and prestige hooey.

Off topic observation: I think it is a crime that a girl with those
stats and ECs was rejected or waitlisted anywhere. The schools must
have filled their quotas of Asians, and needed some lower performing
students complete the class. Elite colleges are racist - especially
when it comes to excellent students who are the wrong race.
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

Also, I think it would be a mistake to post where your daughter
finally decides to go. There are a lot of internet creeps out there
and it is better to be safe than sorry.
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

Academically, she was super. Don't understand why rejections from the
top three (Harvard, Yale & Stanford). Being Asian is a class all by
itself.

Like I said before, too bad she did not consider Johns Hopkins's
pre-Med or BME program. JHU would be superior to all for pre-med by a
long shot.

Anyway, the 2 Ivys: Corny is a good NY State school with good
diversity. Darkmouth is almost as good as Brown...choice of schools
from liberal arts to huge State Schools is odd in mho.

ppeerreeaa DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Sarath Perera) wrote in message news:<77ea5433.0404060450.14e0813e DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> Sometime ago, when our daughter was applying for colleges
> I discussed her choices here. Now she has applied and
> accepted by few. I thought of sharing news with you all.
>
> First here is her stats:
> SAT I: 800 V, 770 M
> SAT II: 680 Math 2C, 670 Biology, 740 Writing
> National Merit Finalist
> ECs including 2 year president of Amnesty International club,
> president of FBLA (community service club), Model UN, Girls
> state, varsity tennis.
> Asian.
>
> Interested in NeuroScience, PreMed and wants to do some
> community service and AI like activities at college.
>
> Here are the colleges she applied to and what she is
> offered. Note: under finance I have listed
> (Bursar bill,final cost). To get "Bursar bill" I added
> tuition, room, board and other mandatory charges, I
> exculuded books, travel and othere misc expenses. To
> get "final cost" I substracted grants and work study
> from "busar bill". Every college gave loans to fill
> "100% need", but I ommited those. (We have to get
> private loans for anything above $8000.)
>
> Amherst College: Accepted, Finance: 37470, 22770
> Bowdoin College: Accepted, Finance: 39680, 17430
> Cornell University: Accepted, Finance: 40099, 24900
> Dartmouth College: Accepted, Finance: 39760, 24923
> Harvard University: Rejected
> Stanford University: Rejected
> Swarthmore College: Accepted, Finance: 39408, 20295
> University of Connecticut: Accepted: 14638, 11778
> Washington University in ST. Louis: Waitlisted
> Yale University: Rejected.
>
> Currently her preference is in the order Swarthmore,
> Amherst, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Cornell.
>
> She will be attending open houses and spending nights
> in Swarthmore, Amherst and Bowdoin. Her decision will
> largely depend on those visits.
>
> My own thoughts:
> Swarthmore: Very good college. Little concerned whether
> as a premed it will become too intense.
> Amherst: Better than Swarthmore in NeuroScience.
> May be less intense than Swarthmore, but still almost
> 100% premeds get admission to Medical college. $2000/year
> more than Swarthmore.
> Bowdoin: Sponsors National Merit Scholarship. $3000/year
> cheaper than Swarthmore. Not in the same class as above
> two, but still very good.
> Dartmouth: Expensive. Very similar to Amherst (without
> counting IVY label). Not $2000 better than Amherst.
> Cornell: Expensive, too far, too big.
>
> Thank you all for help you extended to us during this
> stressful time.
>
> Sarath.
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

ppeerreeaa DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Sarath Perera) wrote in message news:<77ea5433.0404060450.14e0813e DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...


Washington University in ST. Louis: Waitlisted

I have heard that Wash U makes it a practice of waitlisting strong
students as a device for uping their U.S. News Yield. I have a
co-worker whose daughter is also on this waitlist. She should be a
strong candidate--mid 1400s SATs 4.4 GPA, good recommendations. Any
advice re how she might improve her chances of getting accepted from
this wait list? She will be visiting next week.


Regards,

R. Carriere
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

Thank you so much for posting this. It is facinating to see how they all are
basically within a few thousand of each other. She was also very successful
in her applications, you should be so proud of her.
The one thing that stands out to me is DANG! These top tier colleges are
expensive! And when you factor in the lack of any merit aid at them it
becomes very clear that the middle class and lower upper class are the ones
being squeezed out of these schools. If you have to get loans for anything
over $8000 then they certainly did not meet your real need, did they. It is
only four years, but although I think ALL the colleges are terrific, are
they really worth three times that of U Conn? I mean, she is looking at
medical school cost later, right? If she is an only child then it could
easily be worth the added burden of those parent loans (they will not allow
a freshman to take out over a couple thousand themselves), but if she has
siblings one starts to wonder where you draw the line.
Everyone wants the absolute best for their kids and some of the absolute
best colleges are on her accepted list and all the colleges she applied to
were need only schools so I know you were aware of the money situation with
them, so perhaps for your family it is more than worth the burden. For our
family of three children it wouldn't have made financial sense to take out
big parent loans and student loans also so that is why #1 went for merit
schools instead. I know in my heart that she would have fit in just fine to
these power houses of schools, but for our family the need only colleges
were just way out of reach for us.

I am so happy she has such great options. After the shock of the actual
sticker price starts to fade I am sure she will be very happy and you very
content that she and you made the best decision for her. Obviously, you all
were aware that the top tier schools only give up to fafsa need and then
they usually always include various loans. There are many students who's
parents would be willing to pay three times that $40,000 a year if their
students had gotten in. She did the hard part and got in to these schools
and now the harder part of how to pay for it (ouch) is your job. She will be
successful whereever she goes, of that I am sure, and any sacrifices your
family has to make now will probably pay off later.
Congratulations on her terrific options!
-B

"Sarath Perera" <ppeerreeaa.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:77ea5433.0404060450.14e0813e@posting.google.com...
> Sometime ago, when our daughter was applying for colleges
> I discussed her choices here. Now she has applied and
> accepted by few. I thought of sharing news with you all.
>
> First here is her stats:
> SAT I: 800 V, 770 M
> SAT II: 680 Math 2C, 670 Biology, 740 Writing
> National Merit Finalist
> ECs including 2 year president of Amnesty International club,
> president of FBLA (community service club), Model UN, Girls
> state, varsity tennis.
> Asian.
>
> Interested in NeuroScience, PreMed and wants to do some
> community service and AI like activities at college.
>
> Here are the colleges she applied to and what she is
> offered. Note: under finance I have listed
> (Bursar bill,final cost). To get "Bursar bill" I added
> tuition, room, board and other mandatory charges, I
> exculuded books, travel and othere misc expenses. To
> get "final cost" I substracted grants and work study
> from "busar bill". Every college gave loans to fill
> "100% need", but I ommited those. (We have to get
> private loans for anything above $8000.)
>
> Amherst College: Accepted, Finance: 37470, 22770
> Bowdoin College: Accepted, Finance: 39680, 17430
> Cornell University: Accepted, Finance: 40099, 24900
> Dartmouth College: Accepted, Finance: 39760, 24923
> Harvard University: Rejected
> Stanford University: Rejected
> Swarthmore College: Accepted, Finance: 39408, 20295
> University of Connecticut: Accepted: 14638, 11778
> Washington University in ST. Louis: Waitlisted
> Yale University: Rejected.
>
> Currently her preference is in the order Swarthmore,
> Amherst, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Cornell.
>
> She will be attending open houses and spending nights
> in Swarthmore, Amherst and Bowdoin. Her decision will
> largely depend on those visits.
>
> My own thoughts:
> Swarthmore: Very good college. Little concerned whether
> as a premed it will become too intense.
> Amherst: Better than Swarthmore in NeuroScience.
> May be less intense than Swarthmore, but still almost
> 100% premeds get admission to Medical college. $2000/year
> more than Swarthmore.
> Bowdoin: Sponsors National Merit Scholarship. $3000/year
> cheaper than Swarthmore. Not in the same class as above
> two, but still very good.
> Dartmouth: Expensive. Very similar to Amherst (without
> counting IVY label). Not $2000 better than Amherst.
> Cornell: Expensive, too far, too big.
>
> Thank you all for help you extended to us during this
> stressful time.
>
> Sarath.
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

rcarriere.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net (R. Carriere) wrote in message news:<da934c25.0404061725.3a1c30b8.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...

[...]

> I have heard that Wash U makes it a practice of waitlisting strong
> students as a device for uping their U.S. News Yield. I have a
> co-worker whose daughter is also on this waitlist. She should be a
> strong candidate--mid 1400s SATs 4.4 GPA, good recommendations. Any
> advice re how she might improve her chances of getting accepted from
> this wait list? She will be visiting next week.

That probably is the single best thing that she can do: visit the
campus. The other best thing to do is contact the WashU Admissions
Office to tell them she likes the university and is there anything she
can do, any additional information she can send them, to help her
application. The answer will almost certainly be no, but the
important thing is for her to express strong interest in attending.

That's why the visit can be useful; for most schools, it has
predictive value about a student's likelihood of actually
matriculating.

If WashU is indeed waitlisting candidates whom it perceives as being
unlikely to attend, then the countermove is for her to make herself
look like a likely matriculant. By visiting the campus and by telling
them directly that she's interested in attending.


--MKT
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

tamada.DeleteThis@oxy.edu (Mike Tamada) wrote in message news:<bfb23736.0404070115.1260df50.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
> rcarriere.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net (R. Carriere) wrote in message news:<da934c25.0404061725.3a1c30b8.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
>
> [...]
> > strong candidate--mid 1400s SATs 4.4 GPA, good recommendations. Any
> > advice re how she might improve her chances of getting accepted from
> > this wait list? She will be visiting next week.
>
> That probably is the single best thing that she can do: visit the
> campus. The other best thing to do is contact the WashU Admissions

A follow-up: today's LA Times has an article about campus tours, and
a counselor mentions the value of campus visits in terms of making the
school realize that you're interested in attending; the counselor also
claims that some schools will help pay the costs of the visit -- I
don't know how common that is, some schools do indeed have big
recruitment weekends and will fly in selected admitted students but I
had never thought of actually asking a college to help pay for a
campus visit:

<http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-class7apr07,1,7046820.story?coll=la-headlines-california>


--MKT
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

"Sarath Perera" <ppeerreeaa.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:77ea5433.0404060450.14e0813e@posting.google.com...
> Sometime ago, when our daughter was applying for colleges
> I discussed her choices here. Now she has applied and
> accepted by few. I thought of sharing news with you all.
>
> First here is her stats:
> SAT I: 800 V, 770 M

Excellent stats.

> SAT II: 680 Math 2C, 670 Biology, 740 Writing

The sub-700 IIs in Math and Science were probably the decisive factors for
Harvard, Yale and Stanford

> National Merit Finalist

Execellent. MIT would have loved her.

> ECs including 2 year president of Amnesty International club,
> president of FBLA (community service club), Model UN, Girls
> state, varsity tennis.

Leadership, etc. Great.

> Asian.

This was the second strike for H, Y and S. (The negative impact of
diversity/AA.)

>
> Interested in NeuroScience, PreMed and wants to do some
> community service and AI like activities at college.

Community service should be doable everywhere.

Premed, ie., bio and chem ought to be doable everywhere.

Neuro and AI limit her choices.

>
> Here are the colleges she applied to and what she is
> offered. Note: under finance I have listed
> (Bursar bill,final cost). To get "Bursar bill" I added
> tuition, room, board and other mandatory charges, I
> exculuded books, travel and othere misc expenses. To
> get "final cost" I substracted grants and work study
> from "busar bill". Every college gave loans to fill
> "100% need", but I ommited those. (We have to get
> private loans for anything above $8000.)
>
> Amherst College: Accepted, Finance: 37470, 22770
> Bowdoin College: Accepted, Finance: 39680, 17430
> Cornell University: Accepted, Finance: 40099, 24900
> Dartmouth College: Accepted, Finance: 39760, 24923
> Harvard University: Rejected
> Stanford University: Rejected
> Swarthmore College: Accepted, Finance: 39408, 20295
> University of Connecticut: Accepted: 14638, 11778

If you write me a personal email, I will reply with what I think might be a
good plan of action for you regarding finances. I do NOT charge for the
advice, nor do I wish to publicize it.

> Washington University in ST. Louis: Waitlisted

Their loss.

> Yale University: Rejected.

>
> Currently her preference is in the order Swarthmore,
> Amherst, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Cornell.

As a proud Cornell parent I am obviously biased, however I think it would
meet all of your daughter's objectives. Were she to change her priorities
mid-stream, Cornell would more easily accomodate then the others on your
daughter's list.

>
> She will be attending open houses and spending nights
> in Swarthmore, Amherst and Bowdoin. Her decision will
> largely depend on those visits.

Ignoring the finances ( I know its hard to do, but I'll explain more if you
email me) visiting Dartmouth and Cornell should at least be in her tentative
plans.

>
> My own thoughts:
> Swarthmore: Very good college. Little concerned whether
> as a premed it will become too intense.
> Amherst: Better than Swarthmore in NeuroScience.
> May be less intense than Swarthmore, but still almost
> 100% premeds get admission to Medical college. $2000/year
> more than Swarthmore.
> Bowdoin: Sponsors National Merit Scholarship. $3000/year
> cheaper than Swarthmore. Not in the same class as above
> two, but still very good.
> Dartmouth: Expensive. Very similar to Amherst (without
> counting IVY label). Not $2000 better than Amherst.

> Cornell: Expensive, too far, too big.

Big with lots of different schools.

>
> Thank you all for help you extended to us during this
> stressful time.

Congratulations. Savor the moment.

Best regards,

Abe

>
> Sarath.
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

"octo" <octogenarian RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a0eff15b.0404061504.37f474d3@posting.google.com...
> Academically, she was super. Don't understand why rejections from the
> top three (Harvard, Yale & Stanford). Being Asian is a class all by
> itself.

Sub 700 IIs in Math and Science, with otherwise stellar stats.

Affirmative Discrimination.

Abe
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

"Hank Murphy" <hmurphy DeleteThis @earthlink.newt> wrote in message
news:%eTcc.53$k05.8@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Sarath, congratulations to your daughter, and thanks for letting us know
how
> things developed.
>
> A couple of points...pre-med will be "intense" at any good school.

Offspring at MIT voices the same re certain classes that are popular with
the pre-med types.

> I question the choice of a liberal arts college for a neurosciences major.

Tend to agree.

> If she is serious about it, I think Cornell will be the best choice of
those
> listed.

Amen, but I'm biased.

Abe
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

"Sarath Perera" <ppeerreeaa.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> [One of friends, who is a Yale professor, says "undergraduate is the
> time you learn to learn.]

Wow! This is so true!

>
> Both our daugther and I are UConn basketball fans. Yesterday, as we
> were watching UConn win the basketball championship, I asked her whether

Men's or women's? Great games both.

> that makes her want to go to UConn. She says "actually this is a
negative,
> I don't want to goto a college where most students are focussed on
> basketball."

What I loved about Stanford (as a grad student) was that the focus was on
academics, but athletics were never far behind.

Abe
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

"Hank Murphy" <hmurphy DeleteThis @earthlink.newt> wrote in message news:<VD6dc.989$k05.892@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> Mike Tamada wrote in message ...

[...]

> Thus, if a UCLA student has the option of a post at:
>
> http://www.npi.ucla.edu/centerandinit.html
>
> I suspect they might be less enthusiastic about going through the rigorous
> NSF process...While the NSF award is unquestionably prestigious, it's only
> one option for those at a top research university. At a college with fewer
> options, I suspect it may be a more prominent option.

This statement isn't quite making sense; NSF Fellowships are never
used at liberal arts colleges, it's not an "option" at all. Because
they are only given to graduate students who are pursuing PhDs. By
definition, they are only going to be used at doctoral institutions.

The question is: which students receive these fellowships? Students
who graduated from liberal arts colleges, or who graduated from large
schools?

> My daughter could spend weeks striving for an NSF award. Or she could walk
> across the street to the NPI, where she and her classmates may have
> undertaken undergraduate 199-level research classes, and apply for a
> position. Which would you do?

Are you saying that UCLA undergrads get automatic admission into NPI,
and can get a PhD in, say, neuroscience? That'd be extremely unusual,
unheard of in my experience -- every PhD program that I've heard of
requires students to apply, UCLA alum and Williams College alum alike.
(The NPI website states: "The NPI does not grant degrees itself, so
our trainees enroll in a program within a particular department or in
an interdepartmental program." It has a link to the Neuroscience
Interdepartmental PhD Program which has application information
<http://www.neuroscience.ucla.edu/admissions.html> which looks like
that of most other PhD programs.)

If you're talking about undergrad research positions, then yes one can
walk across the street and do undergrad research at NPI. But students
also do undergrad research at liberal arts colleges.

[...]

> Or, you could go to an elite liberal arts college, graduate, than sweat out
> an application to some of those large, public research universities that you
> spurned four years earlier because they were too large and - dare I say it -
> too public. Since one can't get a PhD in a scientific field at many (most?)
> top liberal arts colleges.

And one can't get a PhD at a research university either -- until one
applies and gets admitted into a doctoral program (hopefully with
support such as an NSF award). Unless UCLA has some program that I
don't know about, which automatically accepts UCLA undergrads into a
PhD program, your daughter in order to get a PhD in neuroscience from
UCLA will have to apply and sweat out an application, just as the
Williams College alum has to.


--MKT
 >> Stay informed about: Our College Selection Update 

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:08:08 -0400, "Abe Kohen"
<akohen RemoveThis @xenon.stanford.edu> wrote:

>
>"octo" <octogenarian RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:a0eff15b.0404061504.37f474d3@posting.google.com...
>> Academically, she was super. Don't understand why rejections from the
>> top three (Harvard, Yale & Stanford). Being Asian is a class all by
>> itself.
>
>Sub 700 IIs in Math and Science, with otherwise stellar stats.
>
>Affirmative Discrimination.

These scores are run-of-the-mill for Harvard and Yale. The SAT II's
are disappointing, particularly given the SAT I's. No evidence of
strong extracurriculars. They reject a /lot/ of applicants like this.

--

Josh

To reply by email, delete "REMOVETHIS" from the address line.
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