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Testing Racket Has Ruined High School

 
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Author Message
Dom

External


Since: May 23, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:43 am
Post subject: Testing Racket Has Ruined High School
Archived from groups: k12>chat>teacher, others (more info?)

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121158515508718929-2zYzJcIGUBwh...AaEfzbw

High School's Worst Year? For Ambitious Teens, 11th Grade Becomes a
Marathon of Tests,
Stress and Sleepless Nights
By JONATHAN KAUFMAN
May 24, 2008; Page A1

FARMINGTON, Conn. -- Jennifer Glickman, a 17-year-old high school
junior, gets so stressed some days from overwork and lack of sleep
that she feels sick to her stomach and gets painful headaches.

A straight-A student, she recently announced at a college preparatory
meeting with her mother and guidance counselor that she doesn't want
to apply to Princeton and the other Ivy League schools that her
counselor thinks she could get into.

Jennifer Glickman, 17, is a straight-A student, but some days she says
she gets so stressed from overwork that she feels sick to her stomach
and gets painful headaches.
"My mom wants me to look at Ivy League schools, but my high school
years have been so stressful that I don't want to deal with that in
college," says Ms. Glickman. "I don't want it to be such a competitive
atmosphere. I don't want to put myself in this situation again."

High school has long been enshrined in popular culture -- from the
musical "Grease" to television shows like "Beverly Hills 90210" and
"Friday Night Lights" -- as a time of classes, sports and overwrought
adolescent drama. But these days, junior year is the worst year in
high school for many ambitious students aiming for elite and
increasingly selective colleges -- a crucible of academic pressure.

Almost two-thirds of middle- and upper-middle-income high school
students in the San Francisco Bay Area told researchers that they were
"often or always" stressed by schoolwork, according to a series of
surveys of 2,700 students conducted last year by Stanford University
researchers.

More than half the students reported that they had dropped an activity
or hobby they enjoyed because schoolwork took too much time. More than
three-quarters reported experiencing one or more stress-related
physical problems in the month prior to the survey, with more than 50%
reporting headaches, difficulty sleeping, or exhaustion. About 9% said
they had illegally used prescription drugs like Adderall or Ritalin to
stay up and study; 25% said they used stimulants like Red Bull or No-
Doz.

"On the surface, these kids look like the most privileged group in the
world," says Madeline Levine, a psychologist who has been working with
the Stanford study. "But their parents know there is something wrong.
They are not getting the basic sleep they need, the basic food they
need."

How did 11th grade become such a grind? High school has long been a
painful rite of passage. And heavy workloads are typical for elite-
college-bound kids in countries such as Japan, South Korea and France.
Teachers and principals say homework in the U.S. started increasing in
the 1990s, when national concern over falling test scores prompted the
introduction of more standardized tests, increasing pressure on high
schools to toughen their curricula.

Demographic Surge

The increasing competitiveness of college admissions -- fueled by a
demographic surge in the number of teenagers that is expected to crest
next year -- advanced preparation for applying to college to junior
year from first semester of senior year. Guidance counselors, parents
and college-admissions officers now urge students to start taking
advanced-placement courses -- often with a minimum of 90 minutes of
homework a night -- in junior year, as well as to start building a
portfolio of extracurricular activities and community-service projects
to bolster their applications.

High schools, too, have became more competitive, vying for top
rankings on lists of the "best" high schools by encouraging students
to take advanced-placement courses, a common measure of high school
excellence. More than 60% of the students at Farmington High, a public
school in this middle- and upper-middle-class bedroom community near
Hartford, take at least one advanced-placement course; 80% of all
students go on to four-year colleges.

Faced with such pressures on their kids, some parents find themselves
in the paradoxical position of urging their high school children to
work less and play more.

Tim Breslin, principal of Farmington High, recently talked to his own
daughter -- a junior at a different high school -- about cutting back
some of her activities and classes. These include advanced-placement
history and English, voice lessons, mock trial competition, vice
president of student council, jazz ensemble, an SAT preparation
course, crew and a boyfriend.

"I asked her: 'Do you think you can drop something?' " says Mr.
Breslin. "She said 'no.' "

Ms. Glickman is a talkative, outgoing girl with an easy laugh and an
open manner. She thinks about becoming an elementary-school teacher or
maybe going into international relations. "I love politics," she says.
Like most teens, she enjoys spending the occasional Saturday at the
mall and going out to Chili's and Ruby Tuesday with friends. She
attended the prom last weekend. But she also likes renting a movie and
watching it at home with her mother. (Her father passed away in 1993.
Her older sister attends New York's Colgate University.)

"When you talk to her, she is very mature and self-aware," says Ms.
Glickman's guidance counselor, Sheilah McConnell. "But she can be
silly as much as serious."

Ms. Glickman typically wakes up at 6 to get ready for a school day
that begins at 7:30 a.m. The night before, she packs her lunch --
usually a bottle of water, a ham-and-cheese sandwich, and a treat like
Scooby-Doo fruit snacks. The cafeteria at Farmington High School
offers a wide selection of dishes. But Ms. Glickman's packed schedule
doesn't have time for a sit-down lunch because one of her elective
classes, chorus, meets at lunchtime. Her chorus teacher lets the kids
quickly grab lunch out of paper bags in the back of class.

Hours of Homework

As she moves from class to class, the demands of being a junior pile
up. Honors Spanish -- 30 minutes of homework a night. Advanced-
placement English -- 30 to 90 minutes a night, depending on which
books or documents the class is studying. Honors pre-calculus --
another hour of homework. Honors biology -- 30 minutes more. At the
end of the day comes Ms. Glickman's favorite class and her toughest --
advanced-placement history, with two hours of homework a night,
including reading and regular essays.

Total: an average of four-and-a-half to five-and-a-half hours of
homework a night.

"Sometimes at school I will stress out when I start adding up
everything I have to do tonight," says Ms. Glickman. She typically
goes to sleep at 11:30 p.m., though sometimes she needs to stay up
later to finish a project or study for a big test. "There's not a lot
of sleep going on," she says. Her 98 average ranks near the top of her
class, school officials say. "I need to put in all the effort
possible," she says. "If I get a grade back that I don't want, I say,
'Why didn't I work harder?' "

As Ms. Glickman heads off to a study hall, a group of juniors gathers
in a conference room to talk about the pressures they face. Many are
taking two or three advanced-placement courses, playing sports and
spending time on after-school activities.

"Sometimes you don't know whether you are doing things because you
want to or because it looks good on your résumé," says Daniel Jin, who
is taking four advanced-placement courses, plays lacrosse, is on
student council and involved in an after-school community-service
program. "You have to be careful you're not doing things just to get
them on your college application."

Kevin Putney has a brother at Dartmouth. He says his brother finds
college less pressured than junior year of high school. "I know that
my parents -- they want me to be happy. They would like me to get out
more," he says. "But with all the work I have I can't get out as much
as they would like."

Students say that while parents may tell them to have more balance in
their lives, they also feel pressure from parents to excel. "If you
get good grades, your parents let you do things -- a car when you get
a license, a later curfew," says Kelsey Darch, who has gotten both.

Todd Darch, Kelsey's father, says that getting his daughter a car
means less driving for him as well as "a reward for good grades and
good behavior." He says he only asks that his daughter "put her best
effort forward. If her best effort meant a C in a course, that would
be fine."

"Every week or so my Dad sends me a text message: 'Do what others
won't today so you can do what others can't tomorrow,' " says Jordan
Haviland. "My parents have been so good to me, I feel like I would be
letting them down if I didn't get into an Ivy League school."

Mr. Haviland's father, Timothy, says he doesn't press his son to get
into a certain college, although he suspects Jordan does feel pressure
because his older brother goes to Harvard and his older sister to
Brown.

"I think he probably wants to keep up," says Mr. Haviland, who works
for an investment company. "These kids put a fair amount of pressure
on themselves. They read the papers and go on the Internet and they
see how many students are applying to some of these schools."

Some students say that pressure comes from inside themselves as much
as it does from parents. "The whole game is who is beating [whom],"
says Spencer Noon, looking across the table at Mr. Jin with a smile.
"In the end, if I don't get into Harvard and Dan Jin does, I will be
upset."

Keeping Up

Mr. Breslin, the principal, says Farmington High sometimes reschedules
tests and other events if students complain the pressure is too great.
But he doesn't favor suggestions by some parents that the school limit
the advanced-placement courses or activities that students participate
in.

"We try to make it so kids make thoughtful choices about what they are
doing. But if a student says they want to take an AP course or five AP
courses, and their parents support them, it is very hard to limit that
student," says Mr. Breslin. "They don't want to experience all this
pressure, but they feel that in order to keep up with everyone else
they have to."

Classes for Ms. Glickman end around 2:30 p.m., but her day isn't even
half over. Typically she spends two hours after school working on the
school newspaper, where she is news editor. She also volunteers for a
program that works with disabled students and helps them participate
in sporting events.

She used to play volleyball freshman and sophomore year but stopped
because "it was just for fun."

"I knew junior year was going to be pressured," she says. "I like
volleyball but if I played it, the practices would mean I would have
four hours less for homework." Also, she says, "colleges don't want to
see you do 10 things. They want to see you doing three things
passionately."

Since March, Ms. Glickman, like many of her classmates, has been
attending an after-school SAT preparation course designed to boost
scores for the important test in the fall. That means she doesn't get
home until 9:30 p.m. two days a week to begin her homework --
interrupted by occasional forays onto Facebook to chat with and
instant message friends.

When she went to a party on a recent Saturday night, she got home at
11:30 p.m. and did homework until 2 a.m. She slept in until 11:30 a.m.
the next day.

"Over the weekend you have to choose," says Ms. Glickman. "Do you go
out or stay home so you can get your homework done? You can never do
an all-day thing."

Time for Bowling

Maria Glickman, Jennifer's mother, grew up in New York, attended
Catholic school and was the first in her family to go to college,
commuting to New York's Pace University. "I loved high school. It was
more carefree," says Maria Glickman. "We worked hard. We had a lot of
fun. There was a lot more time to just enjoy ourselves -- going ice
skating, going bowling. I don't get that sense from kids today. They
don't seem to find as much enjoyment in high school as I did."

While Maria Glickman says she urges her daughter not to work so hard
and that "getting a B is OK," she also has been encouraging her to
look at Ivy League schools including Columbia and Princeton.

At a meeting in late February to kick off the college-application
process, both her mother and Ms. McConnell, her guidance counselor,
suggested that Ms. Glickman consider some Ivy League schools. Ms.
Glickman is adamant: She wants a school that she thinks will be
challenging but less pressured. She's interested in the College of
William and Mary, American University, or Boston College, though she
recently added Brown to her list. During vacation in April, Maria
Glickman suggested stopping by Princeton on a family trip "just to see
the campus," but her daughter said no.

"She said she doesn't want so much pressure in college -- she wants to
enjoy her four years," says Maria Glickman, who says she supports her
daughter's decision. "I want her to find a place where she will be
happy and comfortable."

Ms. Glickman recently started a project in her "Personal Wellness"
class. The assignment: change one aspect of your daily health routine
to reduce stress, and keep a journal of your progress.

Ms. Glickman's goal: Getting more sleep by making sure she goes to bed
at 10 every night. A friend of hers, another junior, tried the same
goal recently and couldn't do it -- too much homework.

"I am really going to try," says Ms. Glickman with a laugh. "We'll
have to see."

Write to Jonathan Kaufman at jonathan.kaufman.DeleteThis@wsj.com

 >> Stay informed about: Testing Racket Has Ruined High School 
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Alan Lichtenstein

External


Since: May 26, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Testing Racket Has Ruined High School [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dom wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121158515508718929-2zYzJcIGUBwh...AaEfzbw
>
> High School's Worst Year? For Ambitious Teens, 11th Grade Becomes a
> Marathon of Tests,
> Stress and Sleepless Nights
> By JONATHAN KAUFMAN
> May 24, 2008; Page A1
>
> FARMINGTON, Conn. -- Jennifer Glickman, a 17-year-old high school
> junior, gets so stressed some days from overwork and lack of sleep
> that she feels sick to her stomach and gets painful headaches.
>
> A straight-A student, she recently announced at a college preparatory
> meeting with her mother and guidance counselor that she doesn't want
> to apply to Princeton and the other Ivy League schools that her
> counselor thinks she could get into.
>
> Jennifer Glickman, 17, is a straight-A student, but some days she says
> she gets so stressed from overwork that she feels sick to her stomach
> and gets painful headaches.
> "My mom wants me to look at Ivy League schools, but my high school
> years have been so stressful that I don't want to deal with that in
> college," says Ms. Glickman. "I don't want it to be such a competitive
> atmosphere. I don't want to put myself in this situation again."
>
> High school has long been enshrined in popular culture -- from the
> musical "Grease" to television shows like "Beverly Hills 90210" and
> "Friday Night Lights" -- as a time of classes, sports and overwrought
> adolescent drama. But these days, junior year is the worst year in
> high school for many ambitious students aiming for elite and
> increasingly selective colleges -- a crucible of academic pressure.
>
> Almost two-thirds of middle- and upper-middle-income high school
> students in the San Francisco Bay Area told researchers that they were
> "often or always" stressed by schoolwork, according to a series of
> surveys of 2,700 students conducted last year by Stanford University
> researchers.
>
> More than half the students reported that they had dropped an activity
> or hobby they enjoyed because schoolwork took too much time. More than
> three-quarters reported experiencing one or more stress-related
> physical problems in the month prior to the survey, with more than 50%
> reporting headaches, difficulty sleeping, or exhaustion. About 9% said
> they had illegally used prescription drugs like Adderall or Ritalin to
> stay up and study; 25% said they used stimulants like Red Bull or No-
> Doz.
>
> "On the surface, these kids look like the most privileged group in the
> world," says Madeline Levine, a psychologist who has been working with
> the Stanford study. "But their parents know there is something wrong.
> They are not getting the basic sleep they need, the basic food they
> need."
>
> How did 11th grade become such a grind? High school has long been a
> painful rite of passage. And heavy workloads are typical for elite-
> college-bound kids in countries such as Japan, South Korea and France.
> Teachers and principals say homework in the U.S. started increasing in
> the 1990s, when national concern over falling test scores prompted the
> introduction of more standardized tests, increasing pressure on high
> schools to toughen their curricula.
>
> Demographic Surge
>
> The increasing competitiveness of college admissions -- fueled by a
> demographic surge in the number of teenagers that is expected to crest
> next year -- advanced preparation for applying to college to junior
> year from first semester of senior year. Guidance counselors, parents
> and college-admissions officers now urge students to start taking
> advanced-placement courses -- often with a minimum of 90 minutes of
> homework a night -- in junior year, as well as to start building a
> portfolio of extracurricular activities and community-service projects
> to bolster their applications.
>
> High schools, too, have became more competitive, vying for top
> rankings on lists of the "best" high schools by encouraging students
> to take advanced-placement courses, a common measure of high school
> excellence. More than 60% of the students at Farmington High, a public
> school in this middle- and upper-middle-class bedroom community near
> Hartford, take at least one advanced-placement course; 80% of all
> students go on to four-year colleges.
>
> Faced with such pressures on their kids, some parents find themselves
> in the paradoxical position of urging their high school children to
> work less and play more.
>
> Tim Breslin, principal of Farmington High, recently talked to his own
> daughter -- a junior at a different high school -- about cutting back
> some of her activities and classes. These include advanced-placement
> history and English, voice lessons, mock trial competition, vice
> president of student council, jazz ensemble, an SAT preparation
> course, crew and a boyfriend.
>
> "I asked her: 'Do you think you can drop something?' " says Mr.
> Breslin. "She said 'no.' "
>
> Ms. Glickman is a talkative, outgoing girl with an easy laugh and an
> open manner. She thinks about becoming an elementary-school teacher or
> maybe going into international relations. "I love politics," she says.
> Like most teens, she enjoys spending the occasional Saturday at the
> mall and going out to Chili's and Ruby Tuesday with friends. She
> attended the prom last weekend. But she also likes renting a movie and
> watching it at home with her mother. (Her father passed away in 1993.
> Her older sister attends New York's Colgate University.)
>
> "When you talk to her, she is very mature and self-aware," says Ms.
> Glickman's guidance counselor, Sheilah McConnell. "But she can be
> silly as much as serious."
>
> Ms. Glickman typically wakes up at 6 to get ready for a school day
> that begins at 7:30 a.m. The night before, she packs her lunch --
> usually a bottle of water, a ham-and-cheese sandwich, and a treat like
> Scooby-Doo fruit snacks. The cafeteria at Farmington High School
> offers a wide selection of dishes. But Ms. Glickman's packed schedule
> doesn't have time for a sit-down lunch because one of her elective
> classes, chorus, meets at lunchtime. Her chorus teacher lets the kids
> quickly grab lunch out of paper bags in the back of class.
>
> Hours of Homework
>
> As she moves from class to class, the demands of being a junior pile
> up. Honors Spanish -- 30 minutes of homework a night. Advanced-
> placement English -- 30 to 90 minutes a night, depending on which
> books or documents the class is studying. Honors pre-calculus --
> another hour of homework. Honors biology -- 30 minutes more. At the
> end of the day comes Ms. Glickman's favorite class and her toughest --
> advanced-placement history, with two hours of homework a night,
> including reading and regular essays.
>
> Total: an average of four-and-a-half to five-and-a-half hours of
> homework a night.
>
> "Sometimes at school I will stress out when I start adding up
> everything I have to do tonight," says Ms. Glickman. She typically
> goes to sleep at 11:30 p.m., though sometimes she needs to stay up
> later to finish a project or study for a big test. "There's not a lot
> of sleep going on," she says. Her 98 average ranks near the top of her
> class, school officials say. "I need to put in all the effort
> possible," she says. "If I get a grade back that I don't want, I say,
> 'Why didn't I work harder?' "
>
> As Ms. Glickman heads off to a study hall, a group of juniors gathers
> in a conference room to talk about the pressures they face. Many are
> taking two or three advanced-placement courses, playing sports and
> spending time on after-school activities.
>
> "Sometimes you don't know whether you are doing things because you
> want to or because it looks good on your résumé," says Daniel Jin, who
> is taking four advanced-placement courses, plays lacrosse, is on
> student council and involved in an after-school community-service
> program. "You have to be careful you're not doing things just to get
> them on your college application."
>
> Kevin Putney has a brother at Dartmouth. He says his brother finds
> college less pressured than junior year of high school. "I know that
> my parents -- they want me to be happy. They would like me to get out
> more," he says. "But with all the work I have I can't get out as much
> as they would like."
>
> Students say that while parents may tell them to have more balance in
> their lives, they also feel pressure from parents to excel. "If you
> get good grades, your parents let you do things -- a car when you get
> a license, a later curfew," says Kelsey Darch, who has gotten both.
>
> Todd Darch, Kelsey's father, says that getting his daughter a car
> means less driving for him as well as "a reward for good grades and
> good behavior." He says he only asks that his daughter "put her best
> effort forward. If her best effort meant a C in a course, that would
> be fine."
>
> "Every week or so my Dad sends me a text message: 'Do what others
> won't today so you can do what others can't tomorrow,' " says Jordan
> Haviland. "My parents have been so good to me, I feel like I would be
> letting them down if I didn't get into an Ivy League school."
>
> Mr. Haviland's father, Timothy, says he doesn't press his son to get
> into a certain college, although he suspects Jordan does feel pressure
> because his older brother goes to Harvard and his older sister to
> Brown.
>
> "I think he probably wants to keep up," says Mr. Haviland, who works
> for an investment company. "These kids put a fair amount of pressure
> on themselves. They read the papers and go on the Internet and they
> see how many students are applying to some of these schools."
>
> Some students say that pressure comes from inside themselves as much
> as it does from parents. "The whole game is who is beating [whom],"
> says Spencer Noon, looking across the table at Mr. Jin with a smile.
> "In the end, if I don't get into Harvard and Dan Jin does, I will be
> upset."
>
> Keeping Up
>
> Mr. Breslin, the principal, says Farmington High sometimes reschedules
> tests and other events if students complain the pressure is too great.
> But he doesn't favor suggestions by some parents that the school limit
> the advanced-placement courses or activities that students participate
> in.
>
> "We try to make it so kids make thoughtful choices about what they are
> doing. But if a student says they want to take an AP course or five AP
> courses, and their parents support them, it is very hard to limit that
> student," says Mr. Breslin. "They don't want to experience all this
> pressure, but they feel that in order to keep up with everyone else
> they have to."
>
> Classes for Ms. Glickman end around 2:30 p.m., but her day isn't even
> half over. Typically she spends two hours after school working on the
> school newspaper, where she is news editor. She also volunteers for a
> program that works with disabled students and helps them participate
> in sporting events.
>
> She used to play volleyball freshman and sophomore year but stopped
> because "it was just for fun."
>
> "I knew junior year was going to be pressured," she says. "I like
> volleyball but if I played it, the practices would mean I would have
> four hours less for homework." Also, she says, "colleges don't want to
> see you do 10 things. They want to see you doing three things
> passionately."
>
> Since March, Ms. Glickman, like many of her classmates, has been
> attending an after-school SAT preparation course designed to boost
> scores for the important test in the fall. That means she doesn't get
> home until 9:30 p.m. two days a week to begin her homework --
> interrupted by occasional forays onto Facebook to chat with and
> instant message friends.
>
> When she went to a party on a recent Saturday night, she got home at
> 11:30 p.m. and did homework until 2 a.m. She slept in until 11:30 a.m.
> the next day.
>
> "Over the weekend you have to choose," says Ms. Glickman. "Do you go
> out or stay home so you can get your homework done? You can never do
> an all-day thing."
>
> Time for Bowling
>
> Maria Glickman, Jennifer's mother, grew up in New York, attended
> Catholic school and was the first in her family to go to college,
> commuting to New York's Pace University. "I loved high school. It was
> more carefree," says Maria Glickman. "We worked hard. We had a lot of
> fun. There was a lot more time to just enjoy ourselves -- going ice
> skating, going bowling. I don't get that sense from kids today. They
> don't seem to find as much enjoyment in high school as I did."
>
> While Maria Glickman says she urges her daughter not to work so hard
> and that "getting a B is OK," she also has been encouraging her to
> look at Ivy League schools including Columbia and Princeton.
>
> At a meeting in late February to kick off the college-application
> process, both her mother and Ms. McConnell, her guidance counselor,
> suggested that Ms. Glickman consider some Ivy League schools. Ms.
> Glickman is adamant: She wants a school that she thinks will be
> challenging but less pressured. She's interested in the College of
> William and Mary, American University, or Boston College, though she
> recently added Brown to her list. During vacation in April, Maria
> Glickman suggested stopping by Princeton on a family trip "just to see
> the campus," but her daughter said no.
>
> "She said she doesn't want so much pressure in college -- she wants to
> enjoy her four years," says Maria Glickman, who says she supports her
> daughter's decision. "I want her to find a place where she will be
> happy and comfortable."
>
> Ms. Glickman recently started a project in her "Personal Wellness"
> class. The assignment: change one aspect of your daily health routine
> to reduce stress, and keep a journal of your progress.
>
> Ms. Glickman's goal: Getting more sleep by making sure she goes to bed
> at 10 every night. A friend of hers, another junior, tried the same
> goal recently and couldn't do it -- too much homework.
>
> "I am really going to try," says Ms. Glickman with a laugh. "We'll
> have to see."
>
> Write to Jonathan Kaufman at jonathan.kaufman.DeleteThis@wsj.com

Contrast this with the recent piece on 60 Minutes( which was itself, I
believe, a repeat ) on the Millenials. You know, these are the kids
that were raised when the bankrupt Social/Emotional Lerning philosophy
was in the ascendancy. They're the kids that don't think they need to
work for anything; they're the kids that think participation trumps
achievement, and they're entitled to maximum rewards regardless of the
quality of their learning.

Now, when these kids realize they have to actually produce something and
that they're in competition with their peers, they rebel, and with their
apologists, like Mr. Kaufman, tell us, or at least infer, that this is a
bad thing.

Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk. It's
not a bad thing. We now have to import our engineers and scientists
from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
energy that is needed for success. And why? Because we don't produce
any. Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
willing to dig in and be the best. When all we produce are college
graduates who seem to feel the world owes them a living no matter what
they actually produce, no wonder we're having problems.

So to all those kids who are now having to make choices about either
producing something or satisfying their hedonistic and narcissistic
needs, I say good. You'll wind up better individuals for it, and you'll
likely be the kind of individuals America needs. You need to work hard
for what you want. And if you can't cut it, then maybe you ought to set
your sights more realistically. And THEN you'll sleep better.

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Bob LeChevalier

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Since: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 4008



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:41 pm
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Dom <DRosa DeleteThis @teikyopost.edu> wrote:
>http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121158515508718929-2zYzJcIGUBwhbEzAaEfzbw7pf7w_20080622.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top
>
>High School's Worst Year? For Ambitious Teens, 11th Grade Becomes a
>Marathon of Tests,
>Stress and Sleepless Nights
>By JONATHAN KAUFMAN
>May 24, 2008; Page A1

Too bad that the article copied offers no support at all for the
subject line thesis, and in fact does not use the word "testing" at
all. The kid in question, despite being academically outstanding with
a 98 average, is over-stressed by demanding academics, deadly homework
levels (leading to not enough sleep, and no down-time) and
hyper-competition for admission to elite schools.

lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab DeleteThis @lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
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Bob LeChevalier

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Since: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 4008



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:59 pm
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Alan Lichtenstein <arl.TakeThisOut@nospam.tld> wrote:
>Now, when these kids realize they have to actually produce something and
>that they're in competition with their peers, they rebel, and with their
>apologists, like Mr. Kaufman, tell us, or at least infer, that this is a
>bad thing.

Excessive competition IS a bad thing. It turns off a lot of people
who want to have more to their life than the daily grind.

>Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk. It's
>not a bad thing. We now have to import our engineers and scientists
>from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
>energy that is needed for success. And why?

Because they require lower salary and benefits, and even our worst
possible benefits and overdemanding employers leave them enormously
better off than their countrymen that stay in the home country.
Whereas an American can make plenty of money faster with much less
work in other fields besides science, and have a life as well.

>Because we don't produce any.

The benefits to an American for entering those fields isn't worth the
added work needed to get there. Americans are rejecting the intense
competition (or if they are that competitive, they go into marketing
where the money is *much* higher)

>Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
>edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
>willing to dig in and be the best.

Our economy is taking because we consume too much, and yet our system
is designed to grow by getting us to consume even more.

>So to all those kids who are now having to make choices about either
>producing something or satisfying their hedonistic and narcissistic
>needs, I say good.

I kinda like Obama's vision as stated in his Wesleyan U commencement
address, as a 3rd choice. The fact that Obama's message is selling
precisely to the kids you deride suggest that maybe you need to
enlarge your vision as to the possibilities.

>You'll wind up better individuals for it, and you'll
>likely be the kind of individuals America needs.

We don't need teenagers committing suicide from competitive stress,
like Japan has. Or if we do, I WANT us to lose the competition, even
if it means we have to lower our lifestyle sights a little (which in
fact we will have to do anyway due to global warming, energy
shortages, etc)

>You need to work hard for what you want.

Yep. But they don't want what you want them to want.

>And if you can't cut it, then maybe you ought to set
>your sights more realistically. And THEN you'll sleep better.

The student is question is apparently doing so. She's more or less
telling the Ivy League to go screw themselves. If teenagers weren't
being pushed so hard to overachieve, and were allowed to choose their
own goals, we'd probably find that they are perfectly willing to
choose lower sights. They don't WANT to be number one. And there
isn't much America can offer them to make it worth their while, that
isn't much more valued by the millions of India and China.

lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab.TakeThisOut@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
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Dom

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Since: May 23, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:29 pm
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On May 26, 12:37 pm, Alan Lichtenstein <a... RemoveThis @nospam.tld> wrote:
> Dom wrote:
> >http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121158515508718929-2zYzJcIGUBw...
>
> > High School's Worst Year? For Ambitious Teens, 11th Grade Becomes a
> > Marathon of Tests,
> > Stress and Sleepless Nights
> > By JONATHAN KAUFMAN
> > May 24, 2008; Page A1
>
> > FARMINGTON, Conn. -- Jennifer Glickman, a 17-year-old high school
> > junior, gets so stressed some days from overwork and lack of sleep
> > that she feels sick to her stomach and gets painful headaches.
[snip]

> > As she moves from class to class, the demands of being a junior pile
> > up. Honors Spanish -- 30 minutes of homework a night. Advanced-
> > placement English -- 30 to 90 minutes a night, depending on which
> > books or documents the class is studying. Honors pre-calculus --
> > another hour of homework. Honors biology -- 30 minutes more. At the
> > end of the day comes Ms. Glickman's favorite class and her toughest --
> > advanced-placement history, with two hours of homework a night,
> > including reading and regular essays.
[snip]

> Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk.  It's
> not a bad thing.  We now have to import our engineers and scientists
> from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
> energy that is needed for success.  And why?  Because we don't produce
> any.  Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
> edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
> willing to dig in and be the best.  When all we produce are college
> graduates who seem to feel the world owes them a living no matter what
> they actually produce, no wonder we're having problems.

When I graduated from college in 1970, there was a huge glut of
mathematics, engineering and science majors. This was before pseudo-
educators demolished the college preparatory curriculum in the U.S.,
and before the AP racket was introduced. Note that Glickman is taking
"honors pre-calculus" in order to take AP Calculus next year. I would
not be surprised if she will be placed in a remedial math course in
college, or if she will retake Calculus and do very poorly in it.

In the June-July 1995 issue of the American Mathematical MONTHLY,
Melvin Henriksen wrote a commentary (p 482) in which he stated: "What
is really making it more difficult to teach college level mathematics
is the rush to have calculus taught in high school, ..., and at the
price of not teaching basic algebra and geometry."

Another excellent letter, by Joan Reinthaler, was published in the
December 1999 issue of the AMS NOTICES, "Pressure To Study Calculus in
High School." This is available at:

http://www.ams.org/notices/199911/commentary.pdf

The letters follow the Commentary article.

As long as our K-12 system of education continues to be managed by
pseudo-educators and by the operators of assorted testing rackets, the
pseudo-education of American students will continue unabated.
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Alan Lichtenstein

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Since: May 26, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:49 pm
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
> Alan Lichtenstein <arl.RemoveThis@nospam.tld> wrote:
>
>>Now, when these kids realize they have to actually produce something and
>>that they're in competition with their peers, they rebel, and with their
>>apologists, like Mr. Kaufman, tell us, or at least infer, that this is a
>>bad thing.
>
>
> Excessive competition IS a bad thing.

In your opinion.

It turns off a lot of people
> who want to have more to their life than the daily grind.

That's too bad. They can always drop out and take the due reward for
their lack of competitive ability. for the rest of the population who
want to achieve the maximum tangible rewards society has to offer,
they'll just have to be the best of the lot.

>>Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk. It's
>>not a bad thing. We now have to import our engineers and scientists
>
>>from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
>
>>energy that is needed for success. And why?
>
>
> Because they require lower salary and benefits, and even our worst
> possible benefits and overdemanding employers leave them enormously
> better off than their countrymen that stay in the home country.

Good rationalization with no supporting documentation. In fact, its
been reported many times that companies petition the Federal Government
to issue more, I believe the type is H2 visas simply because they CAN'T
fill the jobs with QUALIFIED Americans. And Bureau of Labor statistics
for those high paying jobs reveal that average salaries for those jobs
have risen, not diminished.

> Whereas an American can make plenty of money faster with much less
> work in other fields besides science, and have a life as well.

Again, a rationalization. Bureau of Labor statistics demonstrate that
the Bush economic policies have done nothing but diminish the average
income of those working in most occupations that would fall under your
definition, as compared to the wealthiest 1% of Americans, but the pay
scales for many fields of science and engineering are actually rising.

>>Because we don't produce any.
>
>
> The benefits to an American for entering those fields isn't worth the
> added work needed to get there. Americans are rejecting the intense
> competition (or if they are that competitive, they go into marketing
> where the money is *much* higher)

Hardly. A poor excuse with nothing but opinion to back it up. In fact,
the pay is quite good. We just don't produce the individuals we need.

>>Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
>>edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
>>willing to dig in and be the best.

> Our economy is taking because we consume too much, and yet our system
> is designed to grow by getting us to consume even more.

Again you are incorrect. We can consume as much as we want just so long
as we produce the wealth to support that consumption. Unfortunately,
nearly 40% of our GDP is based on the FIRE sectors of the economy which
make it rather unhealthy. We could support our consumptive proclivities
if we produced sufficient wealth to support same. We simply don't.

>>So to all those kids who are now having to make choices about either
>>producing something or satisfying their hedonistic and narcissistic
>>needs, I say good.
>
>
> I kinda like Obama's vision as stated in his Wesleyan U commencement
> address, as a 3rd choice. The fact that Obama's message is selling
> precisely to the kids you deride suggest that maybe you need to
> enlarge your vision as to the possibilities.

I don't think much of Obama and his feel-good rhetoric with little of
substance to back it up, so I really don't think much of his philosophy
either. Obama is selling a message that you really don't have to do
much; you're entitled just so long as you want it.

>>You'll wind up better individuals for it, and you'll
>>likely be the kind of individuals America needs.

> We don't need teenagers committing suicide from competitive stress,
> like Japan has.

We've had plenty of suicides for the last 50 years when we had no
competition to speak of in the schools, so what you say really doesn't
pan out. When they commit suicide there are far more serious factors
than simply competition.

Or if we do, I WANT us to lose the competition, even
> if it means we have to lower our lifestyle sights a little (which in
> fact we will have to do anyway due to global warming, energy
> shortages, etc)

A vigorous society is not a laid back society, which is what you want.
You're entitled to your views, with which I disagree.

>>You need to work hard for what you want.
>
>
> Yep. But they don't want what you want them to want.

Oh, I don't think so. they want the good life just because they seem to
think they're entitled to it. I want the good life also, but I
understand that you have to work for it, and if you're not better than
the next guy, you don't get it.

You want proof? Just look at the sub-prime mess. All the foreclosures
were simply because people who couldn't really afford the houses were
told that they could have them with absolutely no responsibility on
their part. True, the banks were culpable on their part, but that's
another discussion.

>>And if you can't cut it, then maybe you ought to set
>>your sights more realistically. And THEN you'll sleep better.

> The student is question is apparently doing so. She's more or less
> telling the Ivy League to go screw themselves.

Good for her. But the problem is that she really doesn't want to put
forth the effort. You seem to gloss over that.

If teenagers weren't
> being pushed so hard to overachieve, and were allowed to choose their
> own goals, we'd probably find that they are perfectly willing to
> choose lower sights.

Maybe they should.

They don't WANT to be number one.

From your mouth to God's ears.

And there
> isn't much America can offer them to make it worth their while, that
> isn't much more valued by the millions of India and China.

Which is precisely why the Indians and Chinese have all the jobs. They
just want it more than our lazy self-indulgent Millenials.
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Alan Lichtenstein

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Since: May 26, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:22 pm
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Dom wrote:
(previous post snipped-follow thread )

> When I graduated from college in 1970, there was a huge glut of
> mathematics, engineering and science majors. This was before pseudo-
> educators demolished the college preparatory curriculum in the U.S.,
> and before the AP racket was introduced. Note that Glickman is taking
> "honors pre-calculus" in order to take AP Calculus next year. I would
> not be surprised if she will be placed in a remedial math course in
> college, or if she will retake Calculus and do very poorly in it.
>
> In the June-July 1995 issue of the American Mathematical MONTHLY,
> Melvin Henriksen wrote a commentary (p 482) in which he stated: "What
> is really making it more difficult to teach college level mathematics
> is the rush to have calculus taught in high school, ..., and at the
> price of not teaching basic algebra and geometry."
>
> Another excellent letter, by Joan Reinthaler, was published in the
> December 1999 issue of the AMS NOTICES, "Pressure To Study Calculus in
> High School." This is available at:
>
> http://www.ams.org/notices/199911/commentary.pdf
>
> The letters follow the Commentary article.
>
> As long as our K-12 system of education continues to be managed by
> pseudo-educators and by the operators of assorted testing rackets, the
> pseudo-education of American students will continue unabated.

Aside from your position on testing, I generally agree with you. I'm
sure Herman would sing your praises as well. However, the lack of
competition, IMHO, is what brought down the American educational system.
When cooperation became more important than achievement, which began
in earnest around the time you graduated, we started down the slippery
slope.

I didn't get the impression that the young lady who was taking honors
pre-calculus would be placed in a remedial math class when she entered
college; quite the opposite. I did get the impression that she really
didn't want to work very hard, despite her crocodile tears. complaints,
I would imagine you never considered when you went to school.
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Dom

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Since: May 23, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:21 am
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On May 27, 11:17 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj... RemoveThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> Dom <DR... RemoveThis @teikyopost.edu> wrote:
> >> Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk.  It's
> >> not a bad thing.  We now have to import our engineers and scientists
> >> from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
> >> energy that is needed for success.  And why?  Because we don't produce
> >> any.  Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
> >> edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
> >> willing to dig in and be the best.  When all we produce are college
> >> graduates who seem to feel the world owes them a living no matter what
> >> they actually produce, no wonder we're having problems.
>
> >When I graduated from college in 1970, there was a huge glut of
> >mathematics, engineering and science majors.
>
> In 1970 there was a huge glut of all sorts of majors from people
> evading the draft.  Many of them weren't really that interested in the
> fields in question, and did not in fact go into the fields that they
> supposedly trained for, or left those fields quickly.

I don't see what "evading the draft" had to do with the "huge glut of
mathematics, engineering and science majors"? Moreover, your second
sentence is quite spurious!
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Bob LeChevalier

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Since: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 4008



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:10 am
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Alan Lichtenstein <arl RemoveThis @nospam.tld> wrote:
>> Because they require lower salary and benefits, and even our worst
>> possible benefits and overdemanding employers leave them enormously
>> better off than their countrymen that stay in the home country.
>
>Good rationalization with no supporting documentation. In fact, its
>been reported many times that companies petition the Federal Government
>to issue more, I believe the type is H2 visas simply because they CAN'T
>fill the jobs with QUALIFIED Americans.

Of course, that is because they have defined what is "qualified" in
such a way as to get what they want, which is *cheaper* qualified
workers.

>And Bureau of Labor statistics
>for those high paying jobs reveal that average salaries for those jobs
>have risen, not diminished.

For many people, there is no amount of money that is worth an 80 hour
workweek.

You, a frequent advocate of unions, should understand this. The
science and engineering industries aren't unionized (and would be very
difficult to unionize), and that means that the companies have
enormous leverage to continually demand more of their exempt
employees. And those who are here on a visa have even less option to
resist.

>> Whereas an American can make plenty of money faster with much less
>> work in other fields besides science, and have a life as well.
>
>Again, a rationalization. Bureau of Labor statistics demonstrate that
>the Bush economic policies have done nothing but diminish the average
>income of those working in most occupations that would fall under your
>definition, as compared to the wealthiest 1% of Americans, but the pay
>scales for many fields of science and engineering are actually rising.

So are the number of working hours per employee, I believe.

In any event, an American could earn less and still live much better
than the average Indian who doesn't come to the US.

>>>Because we don't produce any.
>>
>> The benefits to an American for entering those fields isn't worth the
>> added work needed to get there. Americans are rejecting the intense
>> competition (or if they are that competitive, they go into marketing
>> where the money is *much* higher)
>
>Hardly. A poor excuse with nothing but opinion to back it up. In fact,
>the pay is quite good. We just don't produce the individuals we need.

Because people don't choose those fields to study. And the reason
that they don't is that they don't think the return on their
investment is sufficient, or it isn't quick enough.

>>>So to all those kids who are now having to make choices about either
>>>producing something or satisfying their hedonistic and narcissistic
>>>needs, I say good.
>>
>> I kinda like Obama's vision as stated in his Wesleyan U commencement
>> address, as a 3rd choice. The fact that Obama's message is selling
>> precisely to the kids you deride suggest that maybe you need to
>> enlarge your vision as to the possibilities.
>
>I don't think much of Obama and his feel-good rhetoric with little of
>substance to back it up, so I really don't think much of his philosophy
>either. Obama is selling a message that you really don't have to do
>much; you're entitled just so long as you want it.

You apparently didn't read or hear the speech. He went to great
length about the need for people to step up and act in the common
interest.

>>>You'll wind up better individuals for it, and you'll
>>>likely be the kind of individuals America needs.
>
>> We don't need teenagers committing suicide from competitive stress,
>> like Japan has.
>
>We've had plenty of suicides for the last 50 years when we had no
>competition to speak of in the schools, so what you say really doesn't
>pan out. When they commit suicide there are far more serious factors
>than simply competition.

In Japan, it is apparently the stress of competition that lead to
elevated teen stress and suicide.

> Or if we do, I WANT us to lose the competition, even
>> if it means we have to lower our lifestyle sights a little (which in
>> fact we will have to do anyway due to global warming, energy
>> shortages, etc)
>
>A vigorous society is not a laid back society, which is what you want.

No. I like vigor, but I prefer the vigor to be expressed in
cooperative and not competitive ventures, and it would be nice to
spend some of that vigor on noncompetitive things like the arts (or
maybe you think that only the arts that most competitively appeal to
the largest audience should be funded?)

>>>You need to work hard for what you want.
>>
>> Yep. But they don't want what you want them to want.
>
>Oh, I don't think so. they want the good life just because they seem to
>think they're entitled to it.

Their idea of "the good life" is not yours.

>You want proof? Just look at the sub-prime mess. All the foreclosures
>were simply because people who couldn't really afford the houses were
>told that they could have them with absolutely no responsibility on
>their part.

I don't think that they were told that. I think they were offered the
rosy scenario of how things work when the economy goes well, and
weren't told the fine print about what happens when things tank. Too
many people don't read or don't understand the fine print.

And I think most of those suffering foreclosures are those of the late
boomer generation, and not the ones just getting out of college.

>> The student is question is apparently doing so. She's more or less
>> telling the Ivy League to go screw themselves.
>
>Good for her. But the problem is that she really doesn't want to put
>forth the effort. You seem to gloss over that.

She HAS been putting forth the effort. 4-5 hours of homework per night
after a full day of school.

I personally think that no student should be REQUIRED to put in more
than a 40 hour week in order to succeed. If some elite universities
want to demand such, then we need to lower the level that we call
"success" so as to allow other options.

> If teenagers weren't
>> being pushed so hard to overachieve, and were allowed to choose their
>> own goals, we'd probably find that they are perfectly willing to
>> choose lower sights.
>
>Maybe they should.

We agree. But their parents don't always agree. And of course not
nearly enough teenagers will choose the competitive science and
engineering path because the work is especially hard, and the rewards
take longer to achieve (requiring advanced degrees in many cases). The
case is not clearly made that a science major who drops out of the rat
race (as I did - I did not go to grad school, and my field of
astrophysics has negligible opportunities short of the PhD level)
often is at a competitive advantage in the non-sciences even though
they don't have the specific training.

> And there
>> isn't much America can offer them to make it worth their while, that
>> isn't much more valued by the millions of India and China.
>
>Which is precisely why the Indians and Chinese have all the jobs. They
>just want it more than our lazy self-indulgent Millenials.

The fact that there are 8 times as many Chinese and Indians combined
as there are Americans, means that they can have a much smaller
percentage choosing the path, and still flood us with people. They
also have cultures that don't promote the concept of human rights and
liberty, which does include the right to be self-indulgent.

lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab RemoveThis @lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
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Bob LeChevalier

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Since: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 4008



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:17 am
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Dom <DRosa.RemoveThis@teikyopost.edu> wrote:
>> Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk.  It's
>> not a bad thing.  We now have to import our engineers and scientists
>> from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
>> energy that is needed for success.  And why?  Because we don't produce
>> any.  Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
>> edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
>> willing to dig in and be the best.  When all we produce are college
>> graduates who seem to feel the world owes them a living no matter what
>> they actually produce, no wonder we're having problems.
>
>When I graduated from college in 1970, there was a huge glut of
>mathematics, engineering and science majors.

In 1970 there was a huge glut of all sorts of majors from people
evading the draft. Many of them weren't really that interested in the
fields in question, and did not in fact go into the fields that they
supposedly trained for, or left those fields quickly.

>This was before pseudo-educators demolished the college preparatory curriculum in the U.S.

No. That was the era when college professors started lowering
standards rapidly, because they also opposed the war, and no one
wanted to kick a student out of school and into Vietnam.

I graduated in 1974, and the average GPA had dropped significantly in
each succeeding year.

That was also the era with the peak of the baby boom, and colleges
expanded to absorb that peak, which was inflated by the draft dodging.
As the boom receded, colleges had empty seats and full faculties, so
standards lowered further in order to fill the seats with tuition
payers to support all that faculty.

lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab.RemoveThis@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
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SumBuny

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Since: May 27, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:09 pm
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"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab.DeleteThis@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:sb7o34tmq2n182t479q0gb2rq4p4a08qp1@4ax.com...
> Alan Lichtenstein <arl.DeleteThis@nospam.tld> wrote:
>>>>You'll wind up better individuals for it, and you'll
>>>>likely be the kind of individuals America needs.
>>
>>> We don't need teenagers committing suicide from competitive stress,
>>> like Japan has.
>>
>>We've had plenty of suicides for the last 50 years when we had no
>>competition to speak of in the schools, so what you say really doesn't
>>pan out. When they commit suicide there are far more serious factors
>>than simply competition.
>
> In Japan, it is apparently the stress of competition that lead to
> elevated teen stress and suicide.
<nodding> I seem to remember that when we were on Okinawa, about a dozen
years or so ago. It was to the point that kids were going to juko (another
school) on Saturdays, in addition to their regular school, so that they
could get into their secondary school of choice--these are elementary school
kids, mind you, that are feeling such pressure, from day one. Kids are
being placed on waiting lists for the "primo" academies for elementary
schools when their mothers find out that they are pregnant from them,
because they only way into the first rate schools of higher learning is to
get into the first rate elementary schools....even then, these kids have to
have tutoring to keep up...

"The nail that stands up gets hammered down" indeed.....

--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
 >> Stay informed about: Testing Racket Has Ruined High School 
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Bob LeChevalier

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Since: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 4008



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Testing Racket Has Ruined High School [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Dom <DRosa DeleteThis @teikyopost.edu> wrote:
>On May 27, 11:17 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj... DeleteThis @lojban.org> wrote:
>> Dom <DR... DeleteThis @teikyopost.edu> wrote:
>> >> Well, I've got some news for Mr. Kaufman and the rest of his ilk.  It's
>> >> not a bad thing.  We now have to import our engineers and scientists
>> >> from places like India, Pakistan and China, who have put in the time and
>> >> energy that is needed for success.  And why?  Because we don't produce
>> >> any.  Our economy is tanking because we no longer have the competitive
>> >> edge of home-grown talent which has no fear of competition and is
>> >> willing to dig in and be the best.  When all we produce are college
>> >> graduates who seem to feel the worl