 |
|
 |
|
Next: Global Studies, Universal Bias
|
| Author |
Message |
External

Since: Aug 08, 2004 Posts: 57
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:57 pm
Post subject: Time to dump the SATs? Archived from groups: us>talk>headline-news, others (more info?)
|
|
|
Some years ago, former University of California
President Richard Atkinson called for dumping the SAT.
He wanted to replace it with tests that try to measure
achievement in specific subjects, rather than overall
aptitude. The testocrats shot him down, but it's still
a good idea and much better than a one-size-fits-all
test that doesn't live up to its promise.
Time to dump the SATs?
by Joe Rodriguez
They're trying to reform the SAT again, which is like
trying to turn a pit bull into a toy poodle. What they
ought to do is euthanize this mutt.
This time they've added a writing section to the
Scholastic Aptitude Test. That's because educators have
been saying that writing is critical for success in
college. Actually, university professors have been
saying this for centuries. You have to wonder why the
College Board, which administers the test, has only now
caught on.
Oh well, an essay question can't hurt, can it? I wish
the SAT had used one when I was a senior at Garfield
High School in East Los Angeles. All I remember are
algebra formulas I had never seen before, and
multiple-choice, verbal questions that looked
suspiciously like an IQ test.
The highest possible SAT score is 1600. I can't
remember my exact score, because I don't want to, but
it was under 900.
On second thought, I don't think a writing test would
have jacked up my score all that much. And it won't
make much difference today for students in schools like
mine. They don't have as many advanced placement
classes or experienced teachers. Nor do they have
affluent parents who can pay for expensive SAT
preparation courses, as they do at privileged schools.
Poor schools that can't teach reading and mathematics
aren't going to teach writing any better.
Did I forget to mention that the poorest schools in
Latino and black neighborhoods often don't have enough
textbooks and other basics? That helps explain the
growing gap between Latino and black SAT scores, and
white and Asian scores.
Since 1990, according to the College Board's own study,
the average verbal score among Mexican-American
students dropped 4 points and their math scores stayed
flat. Meanwhile, white students increased their verbal
scores by 9 points and math by 15. Asian scores rose by
16 on the verbal exam and 19 in math.
Some college systems, including the University of
California and Texas, try to compensate by accepting
the top 10 percent or so of each high school's
graduating class, but with mixed results. The fact is,
most colleges across the country rely too heavily on
the SAT. So do many scholarship programs.
Instead of tinkering with the SAT, we should kill it.
Although the test has its roots in the racist eugenics
movement of the early 20th century - they thought Jews
and African-Americans were inherently dumb and
college-incapable - the supporters of scholastic
testing doggedly pursued an exam that would measure how
much a student had learned in 12 years.
It wasn't a bad idea if it weren't so simplistic, lazy
and easily exploited.
A major flaw of today's SAT is that it's vulnerable to
coaching and short-term improvements. How can you trust
a test that, for the $800 price of a quickie prep
course, can produce a gain of 100 points?
A test isn't much good if it can't predict something,
and the SAT hasn't been proven to be a reliable
predictor of college success.
A few years ago, plucky little Muhlenberg College in
Pennsylvania measured the first-semester grades of
freshman with SAT scores of about 1000 against freshmen
with 1200 scores or better. The results were virtually identical.
But the absolute, worst assumption of the SAT is that
any young person's potential can be reduced to a
number. It assumes that, after four years of college, a
900-point student from a poor school cannot catch up to
or surpass the 1400-point student from a wealthy school.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sure glad
my boss didn't ask for my SAT score when I applied.
Come to think of it, none of my employers have ever asked.
Some years ago, former University of California
President Richard Atkinson called for dumping the SAT.
He wanted to replace it with tests that try to measure
achievement in specific subjects, rather than overall
aptitude. The testocrats shot him down, but it's still
a good idea and much better than a one-size-fits-all
test that doesn't live up to its promise.
Joe Rodriguez is a columnist at the San Jose Mercury
News.
© 2004, San Jose Mercury News
Distd by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.
--
LP
In politics, moderation is the best policy >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Dec 25, 2003 Posts: 506
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:57:54 -0400, LeMod Pol wrote:
>Some years ago, former University of California
>President Richard Atkinson called for dumping the SAT.
>He wanted to replace it with tests that try to measure
>achievement in specific subjects, rather than overall
>aptitude. The testocrats shot him down, but it's still
>a good idea and much better than a one-size-fits-all
>test that doesn't live up to its promise.
>
>Time to dump the SATs?
It appears that the science and math SATIIs predict
college success better than the SATs themselves and
better than any of the other achievement tests. Verbal
ability seems to have less bearing than math achievement.
http://unisci.com/stories/20021/0206023.htm
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 35
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: misc>education, others (more info?)
|
|
|
toto wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:57:54 -0400, LeMod Pol wrote:
>
> >Some years ago, former University of California
> >President Richard Atkinson called for dumping the SAT.
> >He wanted to replace it with tests that try to measure
> >achievement in specific subjects, rather than overall
> >aptitude. The testocrats shot him down, but it's still
> >a good idea and much better than a one-size-fits-all
> >test that doesn't live up to its promise.
> >
> >Time to dump the SATs?
>
> It appears that the science and math SATIIs predict
> college success better than the SATs themselves and
> better than any of the other achievement tests. Verbal
> ability seems to have less bearing than math achievement.
>
> http://unisci.com/stories/20021/0206023.htm
>
You know, Dorothy, that's very interesting. Almost 20 years ago, the NYC
Director of Science, released some data which indicated that success on
the Biology Regents Examination( a content based examination based on a
state syllabus and required of all students taking the course ) was
influenced more by the particular student's mathematics aptitude rather
than the student's verbal abilities. At the time, I was a new assistant
principal responsible for supervising the science department. In
reviewing that data, I changed programming directions to guidance and my
statistics for the examination the following year nearly tripled, using
the same syllabus, materials and teachers. After that, I have become a
proponent of using that material as a baseline, and if you recall, have
posted to that many times previously. Your information appears to
reveal the same conclusions but for a larger statistical population.
Alan >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 81
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: us>talk>headline-news, others (more info?)
|
|
|
LeMod Pol wrote:
>
> This time they've added a writing section to the
> Scholastic Aptitude Test. That's because educators have
> been saying that writing is critical for success in
> college. Actually, university professors have been
> saying this for centuries. You have to wonder why the
> College Board, which administers the test, has only now
> caught on.
It'z hard to get consistent grading on something like this.
Do you get full credit for an essay written in Flawless_Ebonicz? >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 2
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 makemyday.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> It'z hard to get consistent grading on something like this. Do you get
> full credit for an essay written in Flawless_Ebonicz?
No, you get a zero.
What's hard?
DS >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 81
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 makemyday RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > It'z hard to get consistent grading on something like this. Do you get
> > full credit for an essay written in Flawless_Ebonicz?
>
> No, you get a zero.
>
> What's hard?
Oh? Soundz like racizm to me. But since you apparently have access
to the essay scoring guidelines, how about posting the whole works?
Bob, and his ilk, will probably file a civil rights lawsuit citing
violation of constitutional equal protection, and end up requiring
SAT versions in every language, including Ebonicz... >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 232
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:55:10 -0500, makemyday.TakeThisOut@worldnet.att.net wrote
(in article ):
>
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 makemyday.TakeThisOut@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>>
>>> It'z hard to get consistent grading on something like this. Do you get
>>> full credit for an essay written in Flawless_Ebonicz?
>>
>> No, you get a zero.
>>
>> What's hard?
>
> Oh? Soundz like racizm to me.
You don't have the capability to derive anything from anything else.
You're stupid, untalented, impotent, irrational, ugly, and your
puppetmaster dresses you funny.
Have you sued for a "white trash version" of the SAT?
[Don't bother; anonymous wimps can declare yourselves educated and
rational and spew all sorts of college degrees and all sorts of "I am
/so/ great" messages and the only distinctive thing about you anonymous
girlyboys is your fear (and trembling).]
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
Entropy Maintenance Technician
Tao Chemical Company
--------------------------
gray-87a.TakeThisOut@cybercoffee.org
http://www.compcomm.com/
Vicksburg, Mississippi US
> But since you apparently have access
> to the essay scoring guidelines, how about posting the whole works?
>
> Bob, and his ilk, will probably file a civil rights lawsuit citing
> violation of constitutional equal protection, and end up requiring
> SAT versions in every language, including Ebonicz... >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 81
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Gray Shockley wrote:
>
> makemyday.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net wrote
> >
> > "Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
> >>
> >> makemyday.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It'z hard to get consistent grading on something like this. Do you get
> >>> full credit for an essay written in Flawless_Ebonicz?
> >>
> >> No, you get a zero.
> >
> > Oh? Soundz like racizm to me.
>
> You don't have the capability to derive anything from anything else.
> Have you sued for a "white trash version" of the SAT?
White people invented the SAT. They also invented colleges and
universities. DAFNz invented discrimination lawsuitz...
> > But since you apparently have access
> > to the essay scoring guidelines, how about posting the whole works?
> >
> > Bob, and his ilk, will probably file a civil rights lawsuit citing
> > violation of constitutional equal protection, and end up requiring
> > SAT versions in every language, including Ebonicz... >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 1
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
are you a republican?
--
"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle;
pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without
character; business without morality; science without humanity; and
worship without sacrifice."
-- Mahatma Gandhi >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 30, 2004 Posts: 431
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article ,
rwwff wrote:
>LeMod Pol wrote in message ...
>> Some years ago, former University of California
>> President Richard Atkinson called for dumping the SAT.
>[snipped rant of rich vs poor]
>Its always someone elses fault.
>Fact:
>The poor kid who scores 1400 is going to have a better chance of
>honest collegiate success than a rich kid who scores 900.
>Fact:
>The rich kid who scores 1400 is going to have a better chance of
>honest collegiate success than a poor kid who scores 900.
>Thats reality in general. There are exceptions, no surprises there.
>As to dumping SAT to replace with subject specific tests, it won't
>really make much difference for 99% of the kids, those that score 1400
>on the SAT also score near the 800(perfect) mark on the subject
>specific achievement tests; and their weakest scores will still be
>well over the 500 mark. The kid that makes 900 on the SAT is also
>going to bomb the achievement tests; though I doubt many 900's bother
>to take them at the moment.
The SAT or ACT is the only clear educational item available.
Many GOOD schools are now refusing to even provide the class
rank or the GPA because of the educationist idiots and bean
counters who cannot understand that a C in a good course may
indicate far more knowledge than an A in some of the weak
schools. On the gifted mailing list, someone in an
admissions office stated that there was one class
valedictorian with an SAT total of as little as 600.
The SAT is NOT a good test, and is getting worse. The new
writing part will give points for producing fiction; this is
not going to make much difference in learning, especially in
learning to think.
>One final point: you deride the SAT prep courses, which coincidently
>came into strong popularity the year after I took the SAT for the
>first time and decided that my score was adequate. (early 80s) SAT
>prep courses have a strong similarity to "cramming" for a set of
>finals. I'd always simply coasted through school, so I never learned
>this skill.. It is a skill that could have easily improved my final
>GPA half a point.
But at the expense of understanding what you are learning.
Only once, and this was a rather unusual situation, did I
ever study the day before an examination, so I had to learn.
Students today memorize well, but have no idea how to use
the material even in slightly different situations.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin RemoveThis @stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 30, 2004 Posts: 431
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article ,
toto wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:57:54 -0400, LeMod Pol wrote:
>>Some years ago, former University of California
>>President Richard Atkinson called for dumping the SAT.
>>He wanted to replace it with tests that try to measure
>>achievement in specific subjects, rather than overall
>>aptitude. The testocrats shot him down, but it's still
>>a good idea and much better than a one-size-fits-all
>>test that doesn't live up to its promise.
>>Time to dump the SATs?
>It appears that the science and math SATIIs predict
>college success better than the SATs themselves and
>better than any of the other achievement tests. Verbal
>ability seems to have less bearing than math achievement.
>http://unisci.com/stories/20021/0206023.htm
However, many students do not even have access to the
knowledge covered in those tests. They are achievement
tests, and essentially require that competent courses
have been given and the standards maintained.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin DeleteThis @stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 47
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 makemyday.DeleteThis@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> > > It'z hard to get consistent grading on something like this. Do you get
> > > full credit for an essay written in Flawless_Ebonicz?
> > No, you get a zero. What's hard?
> Oh?
Yep. A zero. An F. Preferably a great big one, with a circle around it, in
red ink. >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 20, 2004 Posts: 4011
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
(rwwff) wrote:
>hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message ...
>> The SAT is NOT a good test, and is getting worse. The new
>> writing part will give points for producing fiction; this is
>> not going to make much difference in learning, especially in
>> learning to think.
>
>No takeable test is going to be wonderful; adequate is all that you
>need, and the SAT is adequate. I don't think the creative writing
>thing will be as bad as you think though.
The SAT writing test won't be "creative writing" at all, or "fiction".
The student will have an hour to write an essay on an issue,
presenting a point of view, and showing critical thinking skills and
ideally evidence and examples. Similar essays are found on the GRE,
the NY Regents test, the NAEP, and the Mass teacher competency test.
The essay is score on a 0 to 6 scale as indicated in the following:
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/newsat/writing/essay_scoring.html
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/newsat/writing/essay.html
has a samples essay question. Based on a famous Edison quote it asks
the student:
>Assignment: What is your view on the idea that it takes failure to
> achieve success? Plan and write an essay in which you develop your
> point of view on this issue. Support your position with reasoning and
> examples taken from your reading, studies, experience, or
> observations.
I see no benefit for a fiction-writer in answering that question.
The writing test also includes some multiple choice questions, of
which samples can be found at
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/lc_two/writ/prac/pracStart.html
lojbab
--
lojbab lojbab RemoveThis @lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 30, 2004 Posts: 431
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article ,
rwwff wrote:
>hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message ...
>> The SAT or ACT is the only clear educational item available.
>> Many GOOD schools are now refusing to even provide the class
>> rank or the GPA because of the educationist idiots and bean
>> counters who cannot understand that a C in a good course may
>> indicate far more knowledge than an A in some of the weak
>caveat: Just using past personal experience here....
>I think you overstate this, sure my B's and occassional C's in
>'honors' English gave me a slightly lower grade point than if I had
>taken the regular English and coasted through with an 'A'. [I was
>borderline on the English subject, so they gave me a choice.] But not
>by much; competitively, there were very few in the regular English
>making solid A's; and those few rarely took anything other than
>freshman biology and maybe the algebra I. This locked my class rank
>right at the bottom of the all-honors folks, but well above everyone
>else. (17/517).
I never stated that it was always the case; but in many
schools it is. This is very much the case in strong
high schools, where students very definitely avoid honors
courses because of concern for grades.
>I doubt this basic math has changed much; and I doubt there are many
>college administrators who don't understand this.
THIS IS FALSE! The college preparatory mathematics
which was standard before WWII is not even available
in most high schools, and there is no way that anyone
can tell from a transcript whether the old "Euclid"
geometry course was given, or the "modern" memorize
and compute, or even memorize proofs, junk is the
case. The old algebra I is often worth more than
two years of algebra now.
Most high school teachers teach computation and
formulas. This makes it harder to learn the real
basics later.
Now fortunately, I
>live in a state where class rank is used instead of affirmative
>action, so this measure of competitive standing is currently
>available, and will likely remain so for quite a while. [top 10% of
>all high school classes are automatically accepted into the states
>public universities.]
What about that class valedictorian I cited with a
total GPA of 600? What about the student who takes
hard courses and gets lower grades, but learns more?
>Querry: who are these educationist idiots and bean counters you are
>concerned about?
Most of the current teachers, almost all of the
current educational administrators, and anyone who
thinks the quality of teaching is reflected in the
overall performance of the students, without taking
into account the WIDE difference in ability.
>> schools. On the gifted mailing list, someone in an
>> admissions office stated that there was one class
>> valedictorian with an SAT total of as little as 600.
>But those are singular point cases, they have no impact on the overall
>result. I can recall when I went for the "campus tour" for college,
>that the guide was a student that was technically "valedictorian", but
>that was because she was from a tiny school (less than 10 kids) in a
>tiny rural town.
This was from a larger school. But if the "best"
student got a 600, I would not trust anything from
that school.
>> The SAT is NOT a good test, and is getting worse. The new
>> writing part will give points for producing fiction; this is
>> not going to make much difference in learning, especially in
>> learning to think.
>No takeable test is going to be wonderful; adequate is all that you
>need, and the SAT is adequate. I don't think the creative writing
>thing will be as bad as you think though. The graders aren't going to
>be reading them to be entertained, they'll be using a systematic
>scoring method. I haven't really looked into it, so I don't know all
>the categories of things they'll be looking at. In general I suspect
>they'll be looking for how well the person uses language to develop
>and present an idea, grammar, structure, spelling, etc. This is
>certainly no worse than the take a word and pick the opposite from a
>list of words method. I always felt those were more about
>determining whether the kid knows how to manage the question, rather
>than whether they have a great vocabulary.
It is worse. Creative writing is often absent in many
bright people, because they know that they are doing a poor
job in stating what they mean. They may still be very good
at understanding. I was able to get by at a "B" level, but
it was because I had no problem with the technical points,
and could manage a small amount of window dressing. As for
presenting ideas, at the level a knowledgeable child can
do it, the graders would not have the background to understand
it. Would the presentation of the structure of a mathematical
concept be understandable to an English teacher?
>> >prep courses have a strong similarity to "cramming" for a set of
>> >finals. I'd always simply coasted through school, so I never learned
>> >this skill.. It is a skill that could have easily improved my final
>> >GPA half a point.
>> But at the expense of understanding what you are learning.
>No, not really at the expense of, but rather in addition to what was
>actually learned.
>> Only once, and this was a rather unusual situation, did I
>> ever study the day before an examination, so I had to learn.
>I never really was much for studying before exams either. As I
>mentioned earlier, I did try it a few times, but was never able to
>really make the extra effort pay off.
>> Students today memorize well, but have no idea how to use
>> the material even in slightly different situations.
>I never could memorize anything. I got through high school trig by
>concentrating all my memory effort on remembering the shape of the sin
>and cos curves and then deriving all the remaining identities as they
>were needed.
>Maybe cramming would have been an impossible skill for me to master,
>but still, it would have been nice to try.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin.DeleteThis@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 30, 2004 Posts: 431
|
(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Time to dump the SATs? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article ,
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
> (rwwff) wrote:
>>hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message ...
>>> The SAT is NOT a good test, and is getting worse. The new
>>> writing part will give points for producing fiction; this is
>>> not going to make much difference in learning, especially in
>>> learning to think.
>>No takeable test is going to be wonderful; adequate is all that you
>>need, and the SAT is adequate. I don't think the creative writing
>>thing will be as bad as you think though.
>The SAT writing test won't be "creative writing" at all, or "fiction".
>The student will have an hour to write an essay on an issue,
>presenting a point of view, and showing critical thinking skills and
>ideally evidence and examples.
The first part of good critical thinking is LOGIC, and
I see little understanding of that. The part of logic
which is best understood is extremely precise and formal;
but it is not going to be learned by a memorization and
routine calculation method. Adequate courses in logic,
through the first order predicate calculus, which is
what we understand, and what is used in mathematics and
science, can be taught in elementary school (they have
been) to a large proportion of the students, but is
rarely done for anyone. The old geometry course was
more useful for its logic and introduction to formal
proof than for learning geometric facts, which is one
reason why it is rarely taught.
Similar essays are found on the GRE,
>the NY Regents test, the NAEP, and the Mass teacher competency test.
>The essay is score on a 0 to 6 scale as indicated in the following:
>http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/newsat/writing/essay_scoring.html
I have seen lots of student essays; if you know how to
recognize baloney (or bologna if you are particular),
you catch them quickly. But what are students going
to be able to write if you ask them about their career
hopes in mathematics or science if they do not know
much about the subject matter?
>http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/newsat/writing/essay.html
>has a samples essay question. Based on a famous Edison quote it asks
>the student:
>>Assignment: What is your view on the idea that it takes failure to
>> achieve success? Plan and write an essay in which you develop your
>> point of view on this issue. Support your position with reasoning and
>> examples taken from your reading, studies, experience, or
>> observations.
>I see no benefit for a fiction-writer in answering that question.
I see no way to answer it which is not fiction writing.
I consider this quote to be ridiculous, and so how could
I give examples? Similarly with another quote of his,
"Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."
If you look at the _Sherlock Holmes_ stories, you will
find little perspiration, just "seeing the obvious".
I am considered to be a genius. Seeing the obvious is
not always easy, and one MAY "perspire" a lot in looking
for it, but the hard part is writing it up.
>The writing test also includes some multiple choice questions, of
>which samples can be found at
>http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/lc_two/writ/prac/pracStart.html
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin DeleteThis @stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 >> Stay informed about: Time to dump the SATs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
| Related Topics: | A Time for Heresy - http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/03/22/a_time_for_heresy.php [excerpt] A Time for Heresy Bill Moyers March 22, 2006 Bill Moyers is President of the Schumann Center for Media and Democracy. This is the prepared text of his remarks delivered...
Pseudoscience Would Waste Teaching Time - http://startribune.com Pseudoscience would waste teaching time by Paul Z. Myers Published April 24, 2005 Intelligent design (ID) has failed to meet even the minimal standards of evidence and scholarship we should expect of the science we teach our..
Time to quit your job. defer and shelter unearned income - Harvard Ups Financial Aid Harvard eliminates financial contribution for families earning under $60,000 Published On Monday, April 03, 2006 2:05 AM By DANIEL J. T. SCHUKER Crimson Staff Writer ..
Looking for some suggestions or tips? - I'm going to be a senior in high school and I was wondering if any of you out there have some tips or suggestions as far as getting scholarships/financial aid online. I have checked out FastWeb, but does anyone have other places. Any help would be..
How to to become an NC in-state student - Hi! I'm originally from Germany, but I've been staying in the US (in North Carolina to be exact) since August 2002. I mainly came here to be with my boyfriend, who is American, and to study. In November 2002 I finally got my student visa, and I started m... |
|
You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|