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Since: Jun 22, 2003 Posts: 116
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:48 pm
Post subject: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores Archived from groups: soc>college>admissions (more info?)
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More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores
By KEMBA J. DUNHAM
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Donna Chan is 23 years old and has been out of college since May 2002, when
she graduated from Wagner College on New York's Staten Island. So should
anyone care how she did way back in high school on her SATs?
Apparently some people do. Since Ms. Chan started looking for an entry-level
job in financial services more than a year ago, she has repeatedly stumbled
over a common requirement for many of these positions: a combined SAT score
of at least 1300 out of a maximum 1600. Ms. Chan's combined score on the
math and verbal tests fell "somewhere in the 1200s," even though she earned
a 3.9 grade-point average in college while getting a degree in computer
science with a minor in math.
"I think it's asking a bit much," gripes Ms. Chan, who is currently working
as a part-time paralegal on Staten Island. "That's something high school
kids have to worry about. After four years of working hard, I think you've
paid your dues, and unless you're applying to Princeton Review or some
math-related, analytical job, I don't see the relevance."
The SATs, usually taken by high-school juniors and seniors and once used
solely as a criterion for college admission, are now following many people
through college and into the workplace as a defining performance measure. A
certain cadre of companies that hire large numbers of fresh college
graduates have long asked about SAT scores, but many other large employers
took up the habit in recent years because of the dismal job market. With
thousands of resumes flooding in for even a single open position these days,
employers see the scores as one more way to differentiate among applicants.
And most employers who ask about the SAT say they want someone whose scores
are well above the national average. According to the New York-based College
Board, the association that administers the SAT, the 1.4 million SAT takers
in the class of 2003 earned average scores of 519 on the math portion of the
test and 507 on the verbal section, for a total of 1026. The math average is
the highest in more than 35 years, meaning that those who are applying for
jobs right now on average scored lower.
A number of ads placed by recruiters and staffing firms set clear SAT goals.
Consider this recent ad on HotJobs.com for an entry-level,
investment-banking position: "Minimum expectations include an overall score
of 1350 on the SATs....You will be required to provide official scores and
transcripts, so please do not respond if you do not meet the aforementioned
requirements."
Alan Sage, a vice president at Configuresoft Inc., a Woodland Park, Colo.,
systems-management software company, says he routinely asks applicants to
submit their SAT scores when they apply for sales jobs. He says he picked up
the practice from a former employer of his who wanted applicants to have no
less than a combined SAT score of 1400.
Mr. Sage sets his bar somewhat lower, at 1200, but says he nonetheless sees
the test as a good indicator of future success. "In my experience, people
with high SAT scores tend to do better," he says, adding that his mother
recently reminded him that he scored somewhere in the 1200s. "We wouldn't
exclude someone from an interview if he or she didn't score high," he adds.
While Mr. Sage says he has always asked to see SAT scores, he admits that he
was far more flexible when Configuresoft was first launched in the boom days
of 1999. With his sales team experiencing lots of turnover, he says, he had
to "beg marginal people" to come work for the company.
Mr. Sage says he also places the SAT requirement in ads to see whether
applicants are paying attention to details. When he placed an ad for an
account-manager position on an online job board earlier this month, he
received hundreds of resumes. But fewer than 10% of respondents bothered to
include their scores. Those who did, he adds, scored at least a 1200.
Some are critical of the trend. Seppy Basili, vice president of Kaplan Inc.,
a test-preparation company, says that over the past six months he has been
hearing anecdotally that more companies are asking applicants to submit SAT
scores. He feels that in general, SAT scores in these cases are being used
for the wrong reasons.
"It's such a maligned instrument," says Mr. Basili. "It's not designed to
measure job performance, and the kind of person who performs well on the
SATs is not necessarily the kind of person who will perform well sitting at
their desks."
Morgan Denny, a partner in a New York search firm specializing in financial
services, says he has several clients who only want to see candidates who
reached a certain SAT threshold, even if they have been out of high school
for 10 years. Because he realizes that some people are bad test takers, he
continues to show clients candidates who don't meet the criteria but have
other qualifications, he says.
"The SAT is an annoyance for us and an annoyance for our candidates; we
believe there should be a balance," Mr. Denny says. He adds that he'll often
collect comments and information from candidates who don't meet the SAT
criteria so that his clients will consider the candidate and reconsider
their SAT threshold.
Some employers say they have no interest in seeing the SAT scores of
applicants. The Jewish Employment and Vocational Service, a nonprofit
social-services agency in Philadelphia, is looking for an educational
testing consultant to provide test preparation for the SATs, among other
tests, mainly to low-income youth. But Kristen Rantanen, the director of
communications and public relations for the organization, says that an SAT
score "is nothing we would ever ask or require of a candidate."
Kristin Carnahan, a College Board spokeswoman, says the organization has no
way to confirm whether more companies are using the SAT because it typically
sends scores directly to colleges, not to employers. But she says that it
makes more sense for employers to base their decisions on grades, a more
recent measure of a person's abilities. "There seem to be so many other
measures that would be relevant for employers to use," she adds.
Copyright 2003 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Oct 29, 2003 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:29 pm
Post subject: Re: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I've never had an employer ask me for my SAT score. However, I did
extremely well on the same. I scored the highest on the SAT score
along with a girl at my high school, Highland Park, in Dallas, which
is one of the best high schools in the USA.I scroed amongst the
highest 2% of those who took the test. The extremely high SAT score
allowed me both to gain entrance to the University of Texas at Austin
and into MENSA, the organization for people with high I.Q.'s. >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Nov 14, 2003 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:50 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Abe Kohen" <akohen.RemoveThis@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:bnn699$13on1k$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
> More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores
>
> By KEMBA J. DUNHAM
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>
>
> Donna Chan is 23 years old and has been out of college since May 2002,
when
> she graduated from Wagner College on New York's Staten Island. So should
> anyone care how she did way back in high school on her SATs?
A degree today is mostly bullshit unless it is in a HARD SCIENCE. It is
very difficult to corrupt the hard science and use them for the advancement
of leftist ideology.
The SAT's are more objective than the fraudulent grades most students get as
the result of grade inflation.
On Line Reports About Leftist Professors
http://www.noindoctrination.org/index.shtml
Students Fighting the "Bolshevik" Left on Campus
http://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/ >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Nov 25, 2003 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jun 22, 2003 Posts: 116
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:05 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Alfred Einstead" <whopkins DeleteThis @csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:e58d56ae.0311250924.68053e61@posting.google.com...
> "Joseph Greene" <nospam DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The SAT's are more objective [...]
>
> The SAT has never been validated against any future performance
> criterion in a large population study, as a responsibly designed
> test is supposed to be.
>
> Not validated means bogus. Period.
Do baseball scores count?
Is the winner of the World Series bogus? Question mark!
Is there a test, other than the SAT, which you feel is more objective in
assessing academic talent?
Abe >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Oct 27, 2003 Posts: 20
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Abe Kohen" <akohen.TakeThisOut@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:bq0jn6$1u2t9p$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Is there a test, other than the SAT, which you feel is more objective in
> assessing academic talent?
I do not believe that, by the time one has graduated college and is applying
for a job that the SAT, if it were ever valid for any prognosticating, is at
all valid for job approval. People change while in college, most for the
better, and their SAT scores may remain an embarrassment. Or, to the
contrary, the SAT scores may be very high but the applicant has not lived up
to expectations. Having worked in the corporate world for over 15 years, I
can guarantee you that there are far far more important criteria to consider
than SAT scores. >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Jun 22, 2003 Posts: 116
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Kath" <kathryn.havemann RemoveThis @lexisnexis.com> wrote in message
news:bq23h0$dnq$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
> "Abe Kohen" <akohen RemoveThis @xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:bq0jn6$1u2t9p$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Is there a test, other than the SAT, which you feel is more objective in
> > assessing academic talent?
>
> I do not believe that, by the time one has graduated college and is
applying
> for a job that the SAT, if it were ever valid for any prognosticating, is
at
> all valid for job approval. People change while in college, most for the
> better, and their SAT scores may remain an embarrassment. Or, to the
> contrary, the SAT scores may be very high but the applicant has not lived
up
> to expectations.
Fine, substitute GRE / GMAT / LSAT / MCAT.
> Having worked in the corporate world for over 15 years, I
> can guarantee you that there are far far more important criteria to
consider
> than SAT scores.
True.
Abe >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Oct 27, 2003 Posts: 20
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:08 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Abe Kohen" <akohen DeleteThis @xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:bq3q0t$1t5t7o$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Fine, substitute GRE / GMAT / LSAT / MCAT.
Why? What relationship does the score on a test taken on one day have with
one's ability to perform a job well? Granted, high scores will help you
gain admittance to a good grad school but, beyond that, there is no
correlation with job abilities. >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Apr 08, 2004 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:08:45 -0500, "Kath"
<kathryn.havemann DeleteThis @lexisnexis.com> wrote:
>"Abe Kohen" <akohen DeleteThis @xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
>news:bq3q0t$1t5t7o$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> Fine, substitute GRE / GMAT / LSAT / MCAT.
>
>Why? What relationship does the score on a test taken on one day have with
>one's ability to perform a job well? Granted, high scores will help you
>gain admittance to a good grad school but, beyond that, there is no
>correlation with job abilities.
I wouldn't say that there's /no/ correlation, but I certainly agree
that it's limited, or rather, that it's meaningless in many jobs and
extremely important in some, e.g., technical and academic fields, and
even upper management (I've rarely met a top exec who didn't have a
high IQ). (I'd say the other main correlates are ambition and people
skills, and, in the corporate world, low moral standards -- and I
suppose one ought to add basic education to that, since someone who is
functionally illiterate won't get very far.)
--
Josh
To reply by email, delete "REMOVETHIS" from the address line. >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Nov 10, 2003 Posts: 9
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Joshua P. Hill wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:08:45 -0500, "Kath"
> <kathryn.havemann RemoveThis @lexisnexis.com> wrote:
>
>>"Abe Kohen" <akohen RemoveThis @xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
>>news:bq3q0t$1t5t7o$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>> Fine, substitute GRE / GMAT / LSAT / MCAT.
>>
>>Why? What relationship does the score on a test taken on one day have with
>>one's ability to perform a job well? Granted, high scores will help you
>>gain admittance to a good grad school but, beyond that, there is no
>>correlation with job abilities.
>
> I wouldn't say that there's /no/ correlation, but I certainly agree
> that it's limited, or rather, that it's meaningless in many jobs and
> extremely important in some, e.g., technical and academic fields, and
> even upper management (I've rarely met a top exec who didn't have a
> high IQ).
And then there is the top exec. in the USA, George W. Bush, with a 1206
SAT score (or thereabouts).
(I'd say the other main correlates are ambition and people
> skills, and, in the corporate world, low moral standards -- and I
> suppose one ought to add basic education to that, since someone who is
> functionally illiterate won't get very far.)
> >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Jun 22, 2003 Posts: 116
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Kath" <kathryn.havemann.RemoveThis@lexisnexis.com> wrote in message
news:bqfi1d$ugq$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
> "Abe Kohen" <akohen.RemoveThis@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:bq3q0t$1t5t7o$1@ID-102750.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Fine, substitute GRE / GMAT / LSAT / MCAT.
>
> Why? What relationship does the score on a test taken on one day have
with
> one's ability to perform a job well? Granted, high scores will help you
> gain admittance to a good grad school but, beyond that, there is no
> correlation with job abilities.
While different jobs require different skill sets, these tests serve as a
filter, indicating a high clock speed, if nothing else.
Abe >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Jun 22, 2003 Posts: 116
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Nov 10, 2003 Posts: 9
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Abe Kohen wrote:
> "chung" <chunglau.DeleteThis@covad.net> wrote
>> And then there is the top exec. in the USA, George W. Bush, with a 1206
>> SAT score (or thereabouts).
>
> Whatever the number, it was BEFORE "recentering."
>
> Abe
>
>
>
Well, GWB was reported to have a SAT score of 1206 (566V, 640). After
recentering, his score would have been 640V, 630M or thereabouts. So
1270, give or take 20 points or so. >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Oct 27, 2003 Posts: 20
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Joshua P. Hill" <josh442.TakeThisOut@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4q7nsvo9d35tivkieo3marv9p8erih8mbo@4ax.com...
>(I've rarely met a top exec who didn't have a
> high IQ). (I'd say the other main correlates are ambition and people
> skills, and, in the corporate world, low moral standards -- and I
> suppose one ought to add basic education to that, since someone who is
> functionally illiterate won't get very far.)
You need to spend more time in the corporate world to disabuse yourself of
these assumptions. Low IQ and functional illiteracy are important assets in
some corporations. >> Stay informed about: WSJ: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores |
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Since: Oct 27, 2003 Posts: 20
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: More Employers Are Asking Job Seekers for SAT Scores [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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