The Irresponsible Generation

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 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

On Dec 3, 12:13 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj....DeleteThis@lojban.org> wrote:
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >No one is to blame=everyone is to blame....really?
>
> It doesn't work in reverse. Everyone is to blame -> No one is to
> blame...

Exactly. Irresponsible.

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 3, 12:13 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj....TakeThisOut@lojban.org> wrote:
>> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >No one is to blame=everyone is to blame....really?
>>
>> It doesn't work in reverse. Everyone is to blame -> No one is to
>> blame...
>
>Exactly. Irresponsible.

It has nothing to do with irresponsibility, which is an attitude a
person feels in response to an obligation. Blame, by contrast is an
attitude TOWARDS a person's actions or an inanimate cause that led
some negative consequence (usually one experienced by others).

You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
negative consequences.

"Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
and "intelligence".

lojbab
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

On Dec 6, 8:10 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj... DeleteThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 3, 12:13 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj... DeleteThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> >> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >No one is to blame=everyone is to blame....really?
>
> >> It doesn't work in reverse. Everyone is to blame -> No one is to
> >> blame...
>
> >Exactly. Irresponsible.
>
> It has nothing to do with irresponsibility, which is an attitude a
> person feels in response to an obligation. Blame, by contrast is an
> attitude TOWARDS a person's actions or an inanimate cause that led
> some negative consequence (usually one experienced by others).
>
> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
> negative consequences.
>
> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
> and "intelligence".
>
> lojbab

Look up "blame" in the dictionary. In my dictionary (American
Heritage), it says it is "responsibility for a fault or error." Let
me guess, the dictionary is part of a conspiracy to make you look
bad? If so, I guess the conspiracy is growing, see Webster's....
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blame

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
>> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
>> negative consequences.
>>
>> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
>> and "intelligence".
>>
>> lojbab
>
>Look up "blame" in the dictionary. In my dictionary (American
>Heritage), it says it is "responsibility for a fault or error."

Clearly the definition of a noun, and not a verb, so you've already
gotten sloppy since my usage in the above quoted paragraph was as a
verb.

Let
>me guess, the dictionary is part of a conspiracy to make you look
>bad?

No. The dictionary is something else that you have no clue how to
read.

>If so, I guess the conspiracy is growing, see Webster's....
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blame

I can blame you for my cat throwing up this morning. Does that make
you responsible for it, or irresponsible for not preventing it?

Blaming is subjective on the part of the blamer. Responsibility is
from the point of view of some authority capable of holding one to
account.

<Main Entry: re·spon·si·ble
<Pronunciation: \ri-'spän(t)-s?-b?l\
<Function: adjective
<Etymology: Anglo-French responsable, from respuns
<Date: 1643
<1 a: liable to be called on to answer b (1): liable to be called to
< account as the primary cause, motive, or agent <a committee
< responsible for the job> (2): being the cause or explanation
< <mechanical defects were responsible for the accident> c: liable to
< legal review or in case of fault to penalties
<2 a: able to answer for one's conduct and obligations : trustworthy b:
< able to choose for oneself between right and wrong
<3: marked by or involving responsibility or accountability
< <responsible financial policies> <a responsible job>
<4: politically answerable; especially : required to submit to the
< electorate if defeated by the legislature —used especially of the
< British cabinet
<— re·spon·si·ble·ness noun
<— re·spon·si·bly \-ble\ adverb
<
<synonyms responsible, answerable, accountable, amenable, liable mean
< subject to being held to account. responsible implies holding a
< specific office, duty, or trust <the bureau responsible for revenue
< collection>. answerable suggests a relation between one having a
< moral or legal obligation and a court or other authority charged with
< oversight of its observance <an intelligence agency answerable to
< Congress>. accountable suggests imminence of retribution for
< unfulfilled trust or violated obligation <elected officials are
< accountable to the voters>. amenable and liable stress the fact of
< subjection to review, censure, or control by a designated authority
< under certain conditions <laws are amenable to judicial review> <not
< liable for the debts of the former spouse>.

<Main Entry: 2blame
<Function: noun
<Date: 13th century
<1: an expression of disapproval or reproach : censure
<2 a: a state of being blameworthy : culpability b archaic : fault, sin
<3: responsibility for something believed to deserve censure <they must
< share the blame>

Meaning 1 is an expression of disapproval, an attitude on the part of
the blamer.
Meaning 3 has that cute little phrase "believed to", again indicating
that it is an attitude on the part of the blamer.

Meaning 2 is related, but does not fit the context

Irresponsibility is one step further removed, since it may not even be
linked to a specific responsibility or authority.
<Main Entry: 1ir·re·spon·si·ble
<Pronunciation: \?ir-i-'spän(t)-s?-b?l\
<Function: adjective
<Date: 1648
: not responsible: as a: not answerable to higher authority <an irresponsible dictatorship>
>b: said or done with no sense of responsibility <irresponsible accusations>
<c: lacking a sense of responsibility d: unable especially mentally or financially to bear responsibility

I would assume that you would not claim any generation is
irresponsible according to meaning a - no matter how much blame you
wish to assign, I don't think you are saying that God doesn't apply to
this generation. That is the meaning that is most related to
"responsible" as defined above, because it is the only one that
mentions an authority.

I likewise don't think you intend meaning d, though it refers to a
phrase "bear responsibility"

But if you intend meanings b and c, you have to deal with the phrase
"sense of responsibility" which is something different from either
responsibility or blame.

lojbab
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

On Dec 7, 1:36 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj....RemoveThis@lojban.org> wrote:
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
> >> negative consequences.
>
> >> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
> >> and "intelligence".
>
> >> lojbab
>
> >Look up "blame" in the dictionary. In my dictionary (American
> >Heritage), it says it is "responsibility for a fault or error."
>
> Clearly the definition of a noun, and not a verb, so you've already
> gotten sloppy since my usage in the above quoted paragraph was as a
> verb.

So, you don't understand grammar? First, you use blame as a NOUN
above, and the verb is the usage of the noun in the dictionary.

>
> Let
>
> >me guess, the dictionary is part of a conspiracy to make you look
> >bad?
>
> No. The dictionary is something else that you have no clue how to
> read.
>
> >If so, I guess the conspiracy is growing, see Webster's....
> >http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blame
>
> I can blame you for my cat throwing up this morning. Does that make
> you responsible for it, or irresponsible for not preventing it?
>
> Blaming is subjective on the part of the blamer. Responsibility is
> from the point of view of some authority capable of holding one to
> account.
>

Did you even go to the Webster's link above? It has BOTH the noun and
the verb connected to responsibility.

> <Main Entry: 2blame
> <Function: noun
> <Date: 13th century
> <1: an expression of disapproval or reproach : censure
> <2 a: a state of being blameworthy : culpability b archaic : fault, sin
> <3: responsibility for something believed to deserve censure <they must
> < share the blame>
>
> Meaning 1 is an expression of disapproval, an attitude on the part of
> the blamer.
> Meaning 3 has that cute little phrase "believed to", again indicating
> that it is an attitude on the part of the blamer.
>
> Meaning 2 is related, but does not fit the context
>

Even your own definition of Blame is connected to responsibility.
Meaning three has responsibility right in the definition. The others
indirectly say the same (do you need a definition for reproach or
culpability); however, that is irrelevant. YOU said that blame and
responsibility had little to do with one another and made the claim
that one could be to blame without being responsible and vice versa.
The definitions I provided (and the one you provided) prove this claim
of yours to be bogus.

Yet, your DESPERATE attempts to get out of responsibility for the
financial nightmare your generation has given younger generations
is...all by itself...confirmation of the irresponsibility (rejection
of responsibility) of your generation.

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 7, 1:36 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj....DeleteThis@lojban.org> wrote:
>> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
>> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
>> >> negative consequences.
>>
>> >> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
>> >> and "intelligence".
>>
>> >> lojbab
>>
>> >Look up "blame" in the dictionary. In my dictionary (American
>> >Heritage), it says it is "responsibility for a fault or error."
>>
>> Clearly the definition of a noun, and not a verb, so you've already
>> gotten sloppy since my usage in the above quoted paragraph was as a
>> verb.
>
>So, you don't understand grammar? First, you use blame as a NOUN
>above,

The only place where I "used blame" as opposed to quoted the word, was
in the clause:
<You can blame someone for something

and that is as a verb. Maybe YOU are the one who needs grammar
lessons, dodo.

>and the verb is the usage of the noun in the dictionary.

That sentence makes no sense.

>> >If so, I guess the conspiracy is growing, see Webster's....
>> >http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blame
>>
>> I can blame you for my cat throwing up this morning. Does that make
>> you responsible for it, or irresponsible for not preventing it?
>>
>> Blaming is subjective on the part of the blamer. Responsibility is
>> from the point of view of some authority capable of holding one to
>> account.
>
>Did you even go to the Webster's link above?

I quoted from it below, dodo.

>It has BOTH the noun and the verb connected to responsibility.

But not to irresponsibility. And the difference in point of view is
critical.

>> <Main Entry: 2blame
>> <Function: noun
>> <Date: 13th century
>> <1: an expression of disapproval or reproach : censure
>> <2 a: a state of being blameworthy : culpability b archaic : fault, sin
>> <3: responsibility for something believed to deserve censure <they must
>> < share the blame>
>>
>> Meaning 1 is an expression of disapproval, an attitude on the part of
>> the blamer.
>> Meaning 3 has that cute little phrase "believed to", again indicating
>> that it is an attitude on the part of the blamer.
>>
>> Meaning 2 is related, but does not fit the context
>
>Even your own definition of Blame is connected to responsibility.

only with the qualification of "belief". As I said, and you ignored.
If I blame you for my cat throwing up, does that mean that you have
"responsibility" for my cat throwing up?

Let's make this more real. Hearkening back to an earlier discussion,
you said on 11 Nov 2007:
<Thus, it would make sense for the owner of the weather weapon to blame
<another for their own use of it. Well, did you know that such a
<weapon exists? The devil is called the Prince of the Power of the
<Air, and it is the devil that brought the storm against the boat of
<Jesus and the apostle Paul in Scripture (it certainly wasn't God
<behind the storm). Yet, what does the insurance companies call
<weather damage...AN ACT OF GOD. I still find it interesting that good
<weather is Mother Nature but bad weather is an act of God. Go
<figure. However, this illustrates the weather weapon use. The devil
<is able to control weather and fulfill what Jesus said about him (the
<enemy comes not but to KILL...DESTROY) and blame God in the process.
<This will turn man against God, and..as above...the devil's enemies
<war with each other with the demons benefit from the conflict.

You said that the devil blamed God. Therefore, since you think
"blame" means "responsibility", then you have clearly said that God is
responsible for all "Acts of God", and apparently would label His
failure to not prevent them is "irresponsibility". Is this what you
say?

Note that, unlike you, I am NOT twisting words to mean the opposite of
what you said. I am combining what you say now with what you said
last month, and quoted both so that the whole world sees how you just
put your foot in your mouth.


>Meaning three has responsibility right in the definition.

So?

>The others indirectly say the same (do you need a definition for reproach or
>culpability)

I looked them up, believe me.

>however, that is irrelevant.

YOU are irrelevant.

>YOU said that blame and responsibility had little to do with one another

My words were.
<>> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
<> >> and "intelligence".

"Irresponsibility" and "responsibility" are not the same word. I also
did not deny a connection between "Kennie" and "unintelligence".

>and made the claim that one could be to blame without being responsible and vice versa.

No I did not. I said
>> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
>> >> for,

>The definitions I provided (and the one you provided) prove this claim
>of yours to be bogus.

Your ability to understand a definition is hindered by your lack of
ability to recognize parts of speech, your ignoring little words like
"to" that completely change the grammar and therefore the meaning of
"blame".

Face it, Kennie, you cannot win word games when you don't know the
English language.

>Yet, your DESPERATE

I am hardly desperate.

>attempts to get out of responsibility for the
>financial nightmare your generation has given younger generations

"My generation" gave nothing to anyone, because generations are merely
an abstraction.

I personally HAVE exercised my responsibility as a voter and citizen
in the matter, by calling for the election of officials who will NOT
spend money without charging the full weight of taxes needed to pay
for that spending. My statements to this effect will be found
repeatedly in the history of the education newsgroups that I post to.

Meanwhile, YOU as a voter today are JUST AS responsible for the
decisions of the government since the last year as anyone else,
regardless of their generation. And unlike me, you have asserted
support for specific politicians that have failed to act on this
matter. I accept responsibility for my voting behavior. YOU are
trying to blame a generation when that generation has no more reason
to be held responsible than any other generation that has had the
capability to vote sometime in the last 70-odd years. And your
attempt to blame that generation has all the force, and about as much
sense as my blaming you for my cat throwing up.

>is...all by itself...confirmation of the irresponsibility (rejection
>of responsibility) of your generation.

The word "rejection" is not part of the definition:
: not responsible: as a: not answerable to higher authority <an irresponsible dictatorship>
>b: said or done with no sense of responsibility <irresponsible accusations>
>c: lacking a sense of responsibility d: unable especially mentally or financially to bear responsibility

And incidentally, since I am only an individual, my words and actions
say NOTHING about "my generation", only me.

lojbab
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

On Dec 8, 8:36 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj... DeleteThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Dec 7, 1:36 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj... DeleteThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> >> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
> >> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
> >> >> negative consequences.
>
> >> >> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
> >> >> and "intelligence".
>
> >> >> lojbab
>
> >> >Look up "blame" in the dictionary. In my dictionary (American
> >> >Heritage), it says it is "responsibility for a fault or error."
>
> >> Clearly the definition of a noun, and not a verb, so you've already
> >> gotten sloppy since my usage in the above quoted paragraph was as a
> >> verb.
>
> >So, you don't understand grammar? First, you use blame as a NOUN
> >above,
>
> The only place where I "used blame" as opposed to quoted the word, was
> in the clause:
> <You can blame someone for something
>
> and that is as a verb. Maybe YOU are the one who needs grammar
> lessons, dodo.

A quote mark makes it less of a noun... Tell me, in the phrase
"'blame' and 'irresponsibility' have as little connection..." that you
said above, what is the part of speech of "blame?"

>
> >and the verb is the usage of the noun in the dictionary.
>
> That sentence makes no sense.
>
> >> >If so, I guess the conspiracy is growing, see Webster's....
> >> >http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blame
>
> >> I can blame you for my cat throwing up this morning. Does that make
> >> you responsible for it, or irresponsible for not preventing it?
>
> >> Blaming is subjective on the part of the blamer. Responsibility is
> >> from the point of view of some authority capable of holding one to
> >> account.
>
> >Did you even go to the Webster's link above?
>
> I quoted from it below, dodo.
>
> >It has BOTH the noun and the verb connected to responsibility.
>
> But not to irresponsibility. And the difference in point of view is
> critical.
>
>
>
> >> <Main Entry: 2blame
> >> <Function: noun
> >> <Date: 13th century
> >> <1: an expression of disapproval or reproach : censure
> >> <2 a: a state of being blameworthy : culpability b archaic : fault, sin
> >> <3: responsibility for something believed to deserve censure <they must
> >> < share the blame>
>
> >> Meaning 1 is an expression of disapproval, an attitude on the part of
> >> the blamer.
> >> Meaning 3 has that cute little phrase "believed to", again indicating
> >> that it is an attitude on the part of the blamer.
>
> >> Meaning 2 is related, but does not fit the context
>
> >Even your own definition of Blame is connected to responsibility.
>
> only with the qualification of "belief". As I said, and you ignored.
> If I blame you for my cat throwing up, does that mean that you have
> "responsibility" for my cat throwing up?
>
> Let's make this more real. Hearkening back to an earlier discussion,
> you said on 11 Nov 2007:
> <Thus, it would make sense for the owner of the weather weapon to blame
> <another for their own use of it. Well, did you know that such a
> <weapon exists? The devil is called the Prince of the Power of the
> <Air, and it is the devil that brought the storm against the boat of
> <Jesus and the apostle Paul in Scripture (it certainly wasn't God
> <behind the storm). Yet, what does the insurance companies call
> <weather damage...AN ACT OF GOD. I still find it interesting that good
> <weather is Mother Nature but bad weather is an act of God. Go
> <figure. However, this illustrates the weather weapon use. The devil
> <is able to control weather and fulfill what Jesus said about him (the
> <enemy comes not but to KILL...DESTROY) and blame God in the process.
> <This will turn man against God, and..as above...the devil's enemies
> <war with each other with the demons benefit from the conflict.
>
> You said that the devil blamed God. Therefore, since you think
> "blame" means "responsibility", then you have clearly said that God is
> responsible for all "Acts of God", and apparently would label His
> failure to not prevent them is "irresponsibility". Is this what you
> say?
>

Actually, a true parallel of that would be that I am saying the DEVIL
claims God is responsible, since he is the one blaming God. Do you
deny this is true?

> Note that, unlike you, I am NOT twisting words to mean the opposite of
> what you said. I am combining what you say now with what you said
> last month, and quoted both so that the whole world sees how you just
> put your foot in your mouth.
>

uhhh, see my last comment

> >YOU said that blame and responsibility had little to do with one another
>
> My words were.
> <>> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
> <> >> and "intelligence".
>
> "Irresponsibility" and "responsibility" are not the same word. I also
> did not deny a connection between "Kennie" and "unintelligence".
>
> >and made the claim that one could be to blame without being responsible and vice versa.
>
> No I did not. I said
>

Your words...above...
> >> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
> >> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
> >> >> negative consequences.

Wanna try again?

> >attempts to get out of responsibility for the
> >financial nightmare your generation has given younger generations
>
> "My generation" gave nothing to anyone, because generations are merely
> an abstraction.
>

You are proving my point.

> Meanwhile, YOU as a voter today are JUST AS responsible for the
> decisions of the government since the last year as anyone else,
> regardless of their generation. And unlike me, you have asserted
> support for specific politicians that have failed to act on this
> matter. I accept responsibility for my voting behavior. YOU are
> trying to blame a generation when that generation has no more reason
> to be held responsible than any other generation that has had the
> capability to vote sometime in the last 70-odd years. And your
> attempt to blame that generation has all the force, and about as much
> sense as my blaming you for my cat throwing up.
>

I am tempted to make this paragraph of yours my only response to this
thread, since you totally destroy your own argument, here, by using
blame and responsibility as synonyms. You just told me that saying
Satan is to blame is not saying he is responsible. Yet, here, you
said that my saying that someone is to blame is wrong, since they have
"no more reason to be held responsible..."

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

On Dec 3, 12:29 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj... RemoveThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 2, 12:43 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj... RemoveThis @lojban.org> wrote:
> >> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Ok. You said schools are in the constitution
>
> >> You keep ignoring that word "effectively".
>
> >> >and teachers are not.
>
> >> I did not say that. I did not mention teachers at all.
>
> >Your words..."Teachers are not mentioned in the Constitution."
>
> >Care to revise your answer?
>
> No.
>

Did you or did you not use the word "teachers" at all?

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

On Dec 9, 7:02 am, Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 8, 8:36 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj....DeleteThis@lojban.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >On Dec 7, 1:36 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj....DeleteThis@lojban.org> wrote:
> > >> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
> > >> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
> > >> >> negative consequences.
>
> > >> >> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
> > >> >> and "intelligence".
>
> > >> >> lojbab
>
> > >> >Look up "blame" in the dictionary. In my dictionary (American
> > >> >Heritage), it says it is "responsibility for a fault or error."
>
> > >> Clearly the definition of a noun, and not a verb, so you've already
> > >> gotten sloppy since my usage in the above quoted paragraph was as a
> > >> verb.
>
> > >So, you don't understand grammar? First, you use blame as a NOUN
> > >above,
>
> > The only place where I "used blame" as opposed to quoted the word, was
> > in the clause:
> > <You can blame someone for something
>
> > and that is as a verb. Maybe YOU are the one who needs grammar
> > lessons, dodo.
>
> A quote mark makes it less of a noun... Tell me, in the phrase
> "'blame' and 'irresponsibility' have as little connection..." that you
> said above, what is the part of speech of "blame?"
>
>
>
>
>
> > >and the verb is the usage of the noun in the dictionary.
>
> > That sentence makes no sense.
>
> > >> >If so, I guess the conspiracy is growing, see Webster's....
> > >> >http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blame
>
> > >> I can blame you for my cat throwing up this morning. Does that make
> > >> you responsible for it, or irresponsible for not preventing it?
>
> > >> Blaming is subjective on the part of the blamer. Responsibility is
> > >> from the point of view of some authority capable of holding one to
> > >> account.
>
> > >Did you even go to the Webster's link above?
>
> > I quoted from it below, dodo.
>
> > >It has BOTH the noun and the verb connected to responsibility.
>
> > But not to irresponsibility. And the difference in point of view is
> > critical.
>
> > >> <Main Entry: 2blame
> > >> <Function: noun
> > >> <Date: 13th century
> > >> <1: an expression of disapproval or reproach : censure
> > >> <2 a: a state of being blameworthy : culpability b archaic : fault, sin
> > >> <3: responsibility for something believed to deserve censure <they must
> > >> < share the blame>
>
> > >> Meaning 1 is an expression of disapproval, an attitude on the part of
> > >> the blamer.
> > >> Meaning 3 has that cute little phrase "believed to", again indicating
> > >> that it is an attitude on the part of the blamer.
>
> > >> Meaning 2 is related, but does not fit the context
>
> > >Even your own definition of Blame is connected to responsibility.
>
> > only with the qualification of "belief". As I said, and you ignored.
> > If I blame you for my cat throwing up, does that mean that you have
> > "responsibility" for my cat throwing up?
>
> > Let's make this more real. Hearkening back to an earlier discussion,
> > you said on 11 Nov 2007:
> > <Thus, it would make sense for the owner of the weather weapon to blame
> > <another for their own use of it. Well, did you know that such a
> > <weapon exists? The devil is called the Prince of the Power of the
> > <Air, and it is the devil that brought the storm against the boat of
> > <Jesus and the apostle Paul in Scripture (it certainly wasn't God
> > <behind the storm). Yet, what does the insurance companies call
> > <weather damage...AN ACT OF GOD. I still find it interesting that good
> > <weather is Mother Nature but bad weather is an act of God. Go
> > <figure. However, this illustrates the weather weapon use. The devil
> > <is able to control weather and fulfill what Jesus said about him (the
> > <enemy comes not but to KILL...DESTROY) and blame God in the process.
> > <This will turn man against God, and..as above...the devil's enemies
> > <war with each other with the demons benefit from the conflict.
>
> > You said that the devil blamed God. Therefore, since you think
> > "blame" means "responsibility", then you have clearly said that God is
> > responsible for all "Acts of God", and apparently would label His
> > failure to not prevent them is "irresponsibility". Is this what you
> > say?
>
> Actually, a true parallel of that would be that I am saying the DEVIL
> claims God is responsible, since he is the one blaming God. Do you
> deny this is true?
>
> > Note that, unlike you, I am NOT twisting words to mean the opposite of
> > what you said. I am combining what you say now with what you said
> > last month, and quoted both so that the whole world sees how you just
> > put your foot in your mouth.
>
> uhhh, see my last comment
>
> > >YOU said that blame and responsibility had little to do with one another
>
> > My words were.
> > <>> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
> > <> >> and "intelligence".
>
> > "Irresponsibility" and "responsibility" are not the same word. I also
> > did not deny a connection between "Kennie" and "unintelligence".
>
> > >and made the claim that one could be to blame without being responsible and vice versa.
>
> > No I did not. I said
>
> Your words...above...
>
> > >> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
> > >> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
> > >> >> negative consequences.
>
> Wanna try again?
>
> > >attempts to get out of responsibility for the
> > >financial nightmare your generation has given younger generations
>
> > "My generation" gave nothing to anyone, because generations are merely
> > an abstraction.
>
> You are proving my point.
>
> > Meanwhile, YOU as a voter today are JUST AS responsible for the
> > decisions of the government since the last year as anyone else,
> > regardless of their generation. And unlike me, you have asserted
> > support for specific politicians that have failed to act on this
> > matter. I accept responsibility for my voting behavior. YOU are
> > trying to blame a generation when that generation has no more reason
> > to be held responsible than any other generation that has had the
> > capability to vote sometime in the last 70-odd years. And your
> > attempt to blame that generation has all the force, and about as much
> > sense as my blaming you for my cat throwing up.
>
> I am tempted to make this paragraph of yours my only response to this
> thread, since you totally destroy your own argument, here, by using
> blame and responsibility as synonyms. You just told me that saying
> Satan is to blame is not saying he is responsible. Yet, here, you
> said that my saying that someone is to blame is wrong, since they have
> "no more reason to be held responsible..."
>
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com

Bob...you answered other threads, today...did you find this one too
challenging?

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 8, 8:36 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj....TakeThisOut@lojban.org> wrote:

>> The only place where I "used blame" as opposed to quoted the word, was
>> in the clause:
>> <You can blame someone for something
>>
>> and that is as a verb. Maybe YOU are the one who needs grammar
>> lessons, dodo.
>
>A quote mark makes it less of a noun.

Quote marks around a word usually makes the part of speech of the word
indeterminate. When I talk about the word "bow" you don't know if the
word in quotes is the noun "bow" (Robin Hood) or the verb "bow"
(politely acknowledge applause)

>.. Tell me, in the phrase
>"'blame' and 'irresponsibility' have as little connection..." that you
>said above, what is the part of speech of "blame?"

Indeterminate. Just as if I said that "bow" and "irresponsibility"
have little connection

>> Let's make this more real. Hearkening back to an earlier discussion,
>> you said on 11 Nov 2007:
>> <Thus, it would make sense for the owner of the weather weapon to blame
>> <another for their own use of it. Well, did you know that such a
>> <weapon exists? The devil is called the Prince of the Power of the
>> <Air, and it is the devil that brought the storm against the boat of
>> <Jesus and the apostle Paul in Scripture (it certainly wasn't God
>> <behind the storm). Yet, what does the insurance companies call
>> <weather damage...AN ACT OF GOD. I still find it interesting that good
>> <weather is Mother Nature but bad weather is an act of God. Go
>> <figure. However, this illustrates the weather weapon use. The devil
>> <is able to control weather and fulfill what Jesus said about him (the
>> <enemy comes not but to KILL...DESTROY) and blame God in the process.
>> <This will turn man against God, and..as above...the devil's enemies
>> <war with each other with the demons benefit from the conflict.
>>
>> You said that the devil blamed God. Therefore, since you think
>> "blame" means "responsibility", then you have clearly said that God is
>> responsible for all "Acts of God", and apparently would label His
>> failure to not prevent them is "irresponsibility". Is this what you
>> say?
>
>Actually, a true parallel of that would be that I am saying the DEVIL
>claims God is responsible, since he is the one blaming God.

The insurance companies call them an Act of God. Do you claim that
the insurance companies are the Devil? If so, do you carry any sort
of insurance, and thus serve the Devil?

Meanwhile, are you saying that if the Devil (and/or the insurance
companies) says that God is to blame, then God is "responsible"
because he has been "blamed"? Or are you claiming that God is
"irresponsible" by claiming that he is NOT "responsible"?

See, you aren't the only one who can play silly word games.

>> Note that, unlike you, I am NOT twisting words to mean the opposite of
>> what you said. I am combining what you say now with what you said
>> last month, and quoted both so that the whole world sees how you just
>> put your foot in your mouth.
>
>uhhh, see my last comment

Your last comment is not identical to what you said last month. Since
it doesn't mean the exact identical thing, are you admitting that you
have contradicted yourself, that you are wrong, and that you don't
know what you are talking about?

> >YOU said that blame and responsibility had little to do with one another
>>
>> My words were.
>> <>> "Blame" and "irresponsibility" have as little connection as "Kennie"
>> <> >> and "intelligence".
>>
>> "Irresponsibility" and "responsibility" are not the same word. I also
>> did not deny a connection between "Kennie" and "unintelligence".
>>
>> >and made the claim that one could be to blame without being responsible and vice versa.
>>
>> No I did not. I said
>
>Your words...above...
>> >> >> You can blame someone for something that they were never responsible
>> >> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
>> >> >> negative consequences.
>
>Wanna try again?

Where in "my words ... above ..." did I ever say anything about
someone being "to blame"?

Substituting your own example in there
>> >> >> The Devil can blame God for something that He was never responsible
>> >> >> for, and someone can be irresponsible without necessarily having any
>> >> >> negative consequences.

Does that claim that God is "to blame"? Does it claim that God is
"irresponsible"?

>> >attempts to get out of responsibility for the
>> >financial nightmare your generation has given younger generations
>>
>> "My generation" gave nothing to anyone, because generations are merely
>> an abstraction.
>
>You are proving my point.

You have no point.

>> Meanwhile, YOU as a voter today are JUST AS responsible for the
>> decisions of the government since the last year as anyone else,
>> regardless of their generation. And unlike me, you have asserted
>> support for specific politicians that have failed to act on this
>> matter. I accept responsibility for my voting behavior. YOU are
>> trying to blame a generation when that generation has no more reason
>> to be held responsible than any other generation that has had the
>> capability to vote sometime in the last 70-odd years. And your
>> attempt to blame that generation has all the force, and about as much
>> sense as my blaming you for my cat throwing up.
>
>I am tempted to make this paragraph of yours my only response to this
>thread, since you totally destroy your own argument, here, by using
>blame and responsibility as synonyms.

No. I don't. Let me reverse the words to show this:
>> Meanwhile, YOU as a voter today are JUST AS blame for the
>> decisions of the government since the last year as anyone else,
>> regardless of their generation. And unlike me, you have asserted
>> support for specific politicians that have failed to act on this
>> matter. I accept blame for my voting behavior. YOU are
>> trying to responsibility a generation when that generation has no more reason
>> to be held responsible than any other generation that has had the
>> capability to vote sometime in the last 70-odd years. And your
>> attempt to responsibility that generation has all the force, and about as much
>> sense as my responsibilitying you for my cat throwing up.

If you think that makes sense, then you are truly strange. But then
we knew that.

The one sentence in there that still makes sense is "I accept blame
for my voting behavior", but it doesn't mean the same thing as "I
accept responsibility for my voting behavior". If you don't see this,
try "Kennie accepts responsibility for getting to church each week"
and "Kennie accepts blame for getting to church each week".

>You just told me that saying Satan is to blame is not saying he is responsible.

Please provide a quote where I used the words "Satan is to blame".

You will notice that when I make fun of your misuse of words, I can
quote accurately. You do not quote accurately, but merely state your
misinterpretation.

You would have come closer by asserting
>You just told me that saying Satan is to blame does not mean that he is responsible.

but even that is not exactly what I said, since I was being VERY
CAREFUL about the use of "blame", "to blame", etc. because I was
talking about your word games, so your failure to EXACTLY match my
wording means that you are not being accurate.

>Yet, here, you said that my saying that someone is to blame is wrong, since they have
>"no more reason to be held responsible..."

No, I did not say that. If you do a word search in your posting to
which I am now responding (thereby making "here" meaningful), you will
find that the only person who used the word "wrong" was YOU - in this
very sentence. >I< would be avoiding using the word "wrong" in this
discussion since it adds still more confusion, often being ambiguous
between the meanings of "incorrect" and "immoral".

I said that you saying that someone is to blame has all the force of
my blaming you for my cat throwing up.

lojbab
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>Bob...you answered other threads, today...did you find this one too
>challenging?

I answered "this one" as soon as I saw it, turkey.

You have already been informed repeatedly that 1) I don't necessarily
see all your postings 2) I don't necessarily see your postings as soon
as you send them or in the order you send them, and I might see them
several days later and 3) that I do not have infinite time to waste on
replying to your nonsense.

If I see something I feel like replying to, I will. If not, I won't.
This thread is fast reaching the level of boring repetition, since
your only recourse is to continue to mis-paraphrase what I am saying
when my exact words are critical to my exact meaning.

Therefore, I suggest that you not take a nonresponse as being
significant.

Indeed, I suggest that you not consider yourself as being significant.

lojbab
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation 

Perhaps it was Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> who on Sat 1 Dec
2007 01:58:24 +1100 in the message
<1955be8b-67c3-4646-ac7d-dfc9d59e1ea1 DeleteThis @e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com> chose
these words to write:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Me came across this thread via alt.education, so me wonder which edition of
the Bible uses that grammar.

--
Arfur Moo
 >> Stay informed about: The Irresponsible Generation