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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:31 pm
Post subject: What should be done with higher education?
Archived from groups: uk>politics>misc, others (more info?)
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The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
- below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
extreme.
What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects, cease state funding
of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
encourage vocation post-school courses. Those who cannot get a state
university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
with similar A level results. RH
--
Robert Henderson
philip.RemoveThis@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
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External
Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Robert Henderson <Philip RemoveThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<w5miktAsolFAFwGF RemoveThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
> principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
> will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
> - below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
> fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
> extreme.
Isn't this more accurately called a concession rather than a
privilege?
>
> What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
> school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects, cease state funding
> of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
> encourage vocation post-school courses. Those who cannot get a state
> university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
>
> I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
> with similar A level results. RH
Yes certainly. It's far too easy to get a place at the moment.
Introduce entrance tests, make it much harder for those who simply
memorize many facts in order to get a qualification... introduce a
test to evaluate intelligence, but then support those successful
applicants regardless of their backgrounds. |
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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:50 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <2qqc10t9sp8seer83btlev4vqr22cod5fv DeleteThis @4ax.com>, Anna Nimotti
<woan DeleteThis @deadspam.com> writes
>On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:31:40 +0000, Robert Henderson
><Philip DeleteThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Those who cannot get a state
>> university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
>
>Quite. There is no need for 'scholarships' at all.
Even Moronica is heavily into scholarships. RH
>The universities
>need to get up to date and run more courses as part-tiime/distance
>learning that students can take while they are already employed.
>Employers will pay the course fees if they see the degree as training
>that increases the employee's value.
>
>
>
--
Robert Henderson
philip DeleteThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <4m6d10pcit26e4dc112qmj1bj2jpkjidek RemoveThis @4ax.com>, Anna Nimotti
<woan RemoveThis @deadspam.com> writes
>> >> Those who cannot get a state
>> >> university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
>> >
>> >Quite. There is no need for 'scholarships' at all.
>>
>> Even Moronica is heavily into scholarships. RH
>
>Which proves what, exactly?
That self-funding and corporate sponsorship will not provide sufficient
graduates. RH
--
Robert Henderson
philip RemoveThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:31 am
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In uk.politics.misc on Tue, 27 Jan 2004 at 12:31:40, Robert Henderson
wrote :
>
>The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
>principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
>will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
>- below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
>fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
>extreme.
I thought it was despicable how some of the rebels caved at the last
moment.
>
>What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
>school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects, cease state funding
>of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
>encourage vocation post-school courses. Those who cannot get a state
>university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
There are far too many people going to Uni who are just not capable of
it - quality is far more important than quantity!
>
>I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
>with similar A level results. RH
Depends on the subject - some subjects require more deductive reasoning
than others.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Email to pahyett[AT]activist[DOT]demon[DOT]co[DOT]uk >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Letsbelievethetelevision" <letsbelievethetelevision RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:c2e961fe.0401271328.75d7f148@posting.google.com...
> Robert Henderson <Philip RemoveThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<w5miktAsolFAFwGF RemoveThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> > The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
> > principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
> > will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
> > - below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
> > fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
> > extreme.
>
> Isn't this more accurately called a concession rather than a
> privilege?
>
> >
> > What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
> > school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects, cease state funding
> > of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
> > encourage vocation post-school courses. Those who cannot get a state
> > university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
> >
> > I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
> > with similar A level results. RH
>
> Yes certainly. It's far too easy to get a place at the moment.
> Introduce entrance tests, make it much harder for those who simply
> memorize many facts in order to get a qualification... introduce a
> test to evaluate intelligence, but then support those successful
> applicants regardless of their backgrounds.
This all sounds far too much like common sense, so it has no chance of ever
being adopted. >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:13 pm
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <c2e961fe.0401271328.75d7f148 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
Letsbelievethetelevision <letsbelievethetelevision DeleteThis @hotmail.com> writes
>Robert Henderson <Philip DeleteThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<w5miktAsol
>FAFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
>> principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
>> will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
>> - below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
>> fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
>> extreme.
>
>Isn't this more accurately called a concession rather than a
>privilege?
No. It gives a privileged status to some and not others. RH
--
Robert Henderson
philip DeleteThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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External
Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:31:49 +0000, Paul Hyett
<pah.RemoveThis@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote:
>>What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
>>school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects, cease state funding
>>of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
>>encourage vocation post-school courses. Those who cannot get a state
>>university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
>
>There are far too many people going to Uni who are just not capable of
>it - quality is far more important than quantity!
On what basis do you make that claim?
cheers
matt >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:31:40 +0000, Robert Henderson
<Philip RemoveThis @anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
>principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
>will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
>- below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
>fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
>extreme.
>
>What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
>school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects,
Who decides 20%?
what are bona fide subjects?
>cease state funding of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
How come they aren't degrees?
>encourage vocation post-school courses.
What if people don't want to do them?
>Those who cannot get a state
>university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
>
>I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
>with similar A level results. RH
I can't imagine why you don't have anything to do with the system...
cheers
matt >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:51 am
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matthew Robb wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:31:40 +0000, Robert Henderson
> <Philip.RemoveThis@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>The NuLabcur proposals on top-up fees are wrong both in practice and
>>principle. They have been made worse by the latest concessions which
>>will grant privileges to students on the basis of their parental income
>>- below a certain parental income, students will not be charged top-up
>>fees at all and will receive bursaries. This is obnoxious in the
>>extreme.
>>
>>What should be done? Provide state scholarships for 20% of
>>school-leavers in bona fide academic subjects,
>
>
> Who decides 20%?
>
> what are bona fide subjects?
>
>
>>cease state funding of the non-degrees such as business studies and media studies,
>
>
> How come they aren't degrees?
>
>
>>encourage vocation post-school courses.
>
>
> What if people don't want to do them?
>
>
>>Those who cannot get a state
>>university scholarship can take a degree part-time.
>>
>>I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
>>with similar A level results. RH
> I can't imagine why you don't have anything to do with the system...
> cheers
> matt
IQ could be a good measure for admission. If you selected the students
with lower IQ from those with similar A levels you would get a group of
better achievers. FFM >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:59 am
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In uk.politics.misc on Wed, 28 Jan 2004 at 22:46:09, Matthew Robb wrote
:
>>
>>There are far too many people going to Uni who are just not capable of
>>it - quality is far more important than quantity!
>
>On what basis do you make that claim?
>
The horrendous cost of trying to fund higher education, for a start.
When I went to college, I got a grant, probably because there were far
fewer entering higher education then, thus funding wasn't spread so
thinly.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Email to pahyett[AT]activist[DOT]demon[DOT]co[DOT]uk >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:10 am
Post subject: Re: What should be done with higher education? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 03:51:43 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
<frankfmatthews DeleteThis @houston.rr.com> wrote:
>>>I would also use IQ tests to distinguish between university candidates
>>>with similar A level results. RH
>
>> I can't imagine why you don't have anything to do with the system...
>
>IQ could be a good measure for admission. If you selected the students
>with lower IQ from those with similar A levels you would get a group of
>better achievers. FFM
It could be. I don't have a strong opinion about it one way or the
other. Universities should decide themselves how to admit
cheers
matt >> Stay informed about: What should be done with higher education? |
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