Welcome to StudentsForum.net!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next

 
   Your Students Forum and Resource Site! (Home) -> Education General RSS
Next:  Pledge, Latest developments  
Author Message
Gene Aldrich

External


Since: Mar 27, 2004
Posts: 3



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:10 pm
Post subject: They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next
Archived from groups: soc>culture>african>american, others (more info?)

Strange how 'blind' grading separates the sheep from the goats. 'Brown and
other black students said the emphasis on grades was troublesome.' Perhaps
it's because they were admitted to the school under affirmative action
policies and therefore cannot compete with other students. Should the
selections have been made on their ability to shoot baskets? Maybe black
freshmen are shocked to discover that law journals are not written in
ebonics. On second thought I think the suggestion that the black students
start their own law review journals is excellent-it will prepare them to be
members of the black caucus, the black journalists and all the other
exclusionary black groups, which is a heck of a lot easier than rising to
the standards.


Black law students protest unusual exclusion

By MICHAEL CASS
Staff Writer

VU group's 0% T-shirts reflect recent participation on law journals

The T-shirts expressed the problem in simple, black-and-white terms: ''0%.''

As students who have been admitted to this fall's class at Vanderbilt
University Law School visited the campus yesterday, a group of current
African-American students drew attention to a strange - and not so
black-and-white - disparity.

While about 13% of the law school's students are black, none of those
students has been selected for at least the past two years to work on any of
the school's three student-run law journals, including the most prestigious,
the Vanderbilt Law Review. The numbers weren't much higher in previous
years.

The reasons for the black students' exclusion are mysterious. The journals,
which publish scholarly articles on legal issues, add about 90 students each
year based on grades and writing samples. Judges don't know whose writing
they're reading, and administrators say outside experts have found that
there's no racial bias in the writing assignment. Professors grade their
students' work ''blindly'' as well.

Kyonzte Hughes, a third-year student from Hammond, La., and president of
Vanderbilt's Black Law Students Association, says some black students do
very well academically, while some journal participants from other racial
and ethnic groups don't.

But it's the school's black population that has been coming up empty on one
of the best extracurricular experiences a law student can have.

''Vanderbilt has one of the largest populations of black law students,''
said Damon Brown, a black third-year student from Los Angeles who led
yesterday's protest, though he said he did not apply to work on any of the
journals because of a death in his family two years ago.

''There's a misconception that black students are here and having access to
all these things when they're not,'' said Brown, president of the school's
Thurgood Marshall Legal Activist Society. ''A lot of us came here thinking
the door was wide open.''

The situation may change soon. Student groups, journal editors and
professors are working on potential solutions. Vanderbilt's law faculty,
which opened up more journal positions for second-year students in December,
plans to look at the requirements for first-year students on April 8. That
will allow enough time to implement changes by the end of this academic
year, when each publication will select another group of staffers, Dean Kent
Syverud said.

''It's been a tough issue for three years,'' Syverud said. ''I respect
terrifically the students for their patience and civility. And I don't
expect that patience to last forever. We're really focused on addressing the
matter fairly this year.''

Brown and other black students said the emphasis on grades was troublesome,
though they said they haven't been able to get any grading breakdowns from
the school that would help them explore how African-Americans are stacking
up. They said journal selections should be based on students' abilities to
make intelligent, persuasive legal arguments in writing rather than on their
performances on final exams.

''It's a publication, and that's what we need to focus on,'' said Vinita
Voss, a third-year student who tried out for the journals at the end of her
first and second years.

Syverud said he expected the faculty to move toward a greater emphasis on
writing, as well as toward a more thorough student orientation on the
competition. He said he didn't expect any of the journals to set places
aside based on race alone and that he doubted there would be much support
for that direction.

Student editors of the three law journals declined to be interviewed in
person or on the phone. But Hughes said she was pleased with each journal's
proposal. All three publications have suggested filling some positions based
on writing samples alone, while others would be decided by grades or a
combination of grades and writing, Hughes said.

''There seems to be hope that these proposals will result in more
African-Americans getting on the journal staffs,'' Hughes said. ''We're
hoping the faculty will just leave it up to the students.''

Along with the Vanderbilt Law Review, the student-run publications are the
Vanderbilt Journal of Transnational Law and the Vanderbilt Journal of
Entertainment Law & Practice.

It was difficult to judge the prospective law students' reactions to
yesterday's protest first-hand. Vanderbilt officials would not allow The
Tennessean to join students in the law school lobby, explaining that the
presence of reporters and photographers would be disruptive.

Brown said several students he talked with said they were ''shocked'' by the
situation.

Raven Winters, a first-year student preparing to compete for a journal
position, said she was concerned about her chances.

''My grades are good,'' Winters said. ''So are most of ours. But they were
in the past, too.''

Hughes, a recent student who didn't make it, said she would have enjoyed the
chance to write and edit publishable ''notes,'' as students and professors
call the journal articles. And the experience, though not essential to
becoming a successful, practicing attorney - fewer than half of Vanderbilt
law students are selected - would have added gloss to her resume.

''It's a big advantage when you're trying for jobs,'' Hughes said. ''I
wouldn't necessarily call it an important part of the law school experience.
But I've missed out on an opportunity I think I deserved to have.''


http://www.tennessean.com/education/archives/04/03/48913510.shtml?Elem..._ID=489

 >> Stay informed about: They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next 
Back to top
Login to vote
free

External


Since: Mar 28, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Aggressively conforming Blacks being members of the
non-mainstream are likely to go overboard and
assimulate to well, where acedemic staff look for
nuance and novelty in high acceivers those who
'try to hard' never pickup enough skepticism
nor invest time in accepted non-conformistic
mainstream culture. No, e.g black goths, etc.

On a more general note, one reason why many minorities,
IMHO, remain at the bottom of the rungs in societies
is they accept the mainstrean notions that religion
is good for them, when in fact scientific thinking,
liberalism, skeptiscism, moderation and fighting
the right battles whilst conforming on others is
being taught to the sons and daugthers of mainstream
'white' society. Like most who miss out they get
their proportions wrong, thinking to heavily about
things they can't change (religion) and not enough
about what they can (and become power players in
society). You can tell Blacks will not progress
when their leaders are preists, hispanics are likely
to leap frog blacks in the next coming decades
much like asians (As long as they ditch one-god
religious conformism, catholicism did have 1,000
dark years to perfect the art of keeping the masses
stupid, complacent and unquestioning).

Gene Aldrich wrote:
> Strange how 'blind' grading separates the sheep from the goats. 'Brown and
> other black students said the emphasis on grades was troublesome.' Perhaps
> it's because they were admitted to the school under affirmative action
> policies and therefore cannot compete with other students. Should the
> selections have been made on their ability to shoot baskets? Maybe black
> freshmen are shocked to discover that law journals are not written in
> ebonics. On second thought I think the suggestion that the black students
> start their own law review journals is excellent-it will prepare them to be
> members of the black caucus, the black journalists and all the other
> exclusionary black groups, which is a heck of a lot easier than rising to
> the standards.
>
>
> Black law students protest unusual exclusion
>
> By MICHAEL CASS
> Staff Writer
>
> VU group's 0% T-shirts reflect recent participation on law journals
>
> The T-shirts expressed the problem in simple, black-and-white terms: ''0%.''
>
> As students who have been admitted to this fall's class at Vanderbilt
> University Law School visited the campus yesterday, a group of current
> African-American students drew attention to a strange - and not so
> black-and-white - disparity.
>
> While about 13% of the law school's students are black, none of those
> students has been selected for at least the past two years to work on any of
> the school's three student-run law journals, including the most prestigious,
> the Vanderbilt Law Review. The numbers weren't much higher in previous
> years.
>
> The reasons for the black students' exclusion are mysterious. The journals,
> which publish scholarly articles on legal issues, add about 90 students each
> year based on grades and writing samples. Judges don't know whose writing
> they're reading, and administrators say outside experts have found that
> there's no racial bias in the writing assignment. Professors grade their
> students' work ''blindly'' as well.
>
> Kyonzte Hughes, a third-year student from Hammond, La., and president of
> Vanderbilt's Black Law Students Association, says some black students do
> very well academically, while some journal participants from other racial
> and ethnic groups don't.
>
> But it's the school's black population that has been coming up empty on one
> of the best extracurricular experiences a law student can have.
>
> ''Vanderbilt has one of the largest populations of black law students,''
> said Damon Brown, a black third-year student from Los Angeles who led
> yesterday's protest, though he said he did not apply to work on any of the
> journals because of a death in his family two years ago.
>
> ''There's a misconception that black students are here and having access to
> all these things when they're not,'' said Brown, president of the school's
> Thurgood Marshall Legal Activist Society. ''A lot of us came here thinking
> the door was wide open.''
>
> The situation may change soon. Student groups, journal editors and
> professors are working on potential solutions. Vanderbilt's law faculty,
> which opened up more journal positions for second-year students in December,
> plans to look at the requirements for first-year students on April 8. That
> will allow enough time to implement changes by the end of this academic
> year, when each publication will select another group of staffers, Dean Kent
> Syverud said.
>
> ''It's been a tough issue for three years,'' Syverud said. ''I respect
> terrifically the students for their patience and civility. And I don't
> expect that patience to last forever. We're really focused on addressing the
> matter fairly this year.''
>
> Brown and other black students said the emphasis on grades was troublesome,
> though they said they haven't been able to get any grading breakdowns from
> the school that would help them explore how African-Americans are stacking
> up. They said journal selections should be based on students' abilities to
> make intelligent, persuasive legal arguments in writing rather than on their
> performances on final exams.
>
> ''It's a publication, and that's what we need to focus on,'' said Vinita
> Voss, a third-year student who tried out for the journals at the end of her
> first and second years.
>
> Syverud said he expected the faculty to move toward a greater emphasis on
> writing, as well as toward a more thorough student orientation on the
> competition. He said he didn't expect any of the journals to set places
> aside based on race alone and that he doubted there would be much support
> for that direction.
>
> Student editors of the three law journals declined to be interviewed in
> person or on the phone. But Hughes said she was pleased with each journal's
> proposal. All three publications have suggested filling some positions based
> on writing samples alone, while others would be decided by grades or a
> combination of grades and writing, Hughes said.
>
> ''There seems to be hope that these proposals will result in more
> African-Americans getting on the journal staffs,'' Hughes said. ''We're
> hoping the faculty will just leave it up to the students.''
>
> Along with the Vanderbilt Law Review, the student-run publications are the
> Vanderbilt Journal of Transnational Law and the Vanderbilt Journal of
> Entertainment Law & Practice.
>
> It was difficult to judge the prospective law students' reactions to
> yesterday's protest first-hand. Vanderbilt officials would not allow The
> Tennessean to join students in the law school lobby, explaining that the
> presence of reporters and photographers would be disruptive.
>
> Brown said several students he talked with said they were ''shocked'' by the
> situation.
>
> Raven Winters, a first-year student preparing to compete for a journal
> position, said she was concerned about her chances.
>
> ''My grades are good,'' Winters said. ''So are most of ours. But they were
> in the past, too.''
>
> Hughes, a recent student who didn't make it, said she would have enjoyed the
> chance to write and edit publishable ''notes,'' as students and professors
> call the journal articles. And the experience, though not essential to
> becoming a successful, practicing attorney - fewer than half of Vanderbilt
> law students are selected - would have added gloss to her resume.
>
> ''It's a big advantage when you're trying for jobs,'' Hughes said. ''I
> wouldn't necessarily call it an important part of the law school experience.
> But I've missed out on an opportunity I think I deserved to have.''
>
>
> http://www.tennessean.com/education/archives/04/03/48913510.shtml?Elem..._ID=489
>
>
>
>
>

 >> Stay informed about: They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next 
Back to top
Login to vote
lexcat

External


Since: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:53 am
Post subject: Re: They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hey Free, trust me, you won't be writing on either.

"free" <free.RemoveThis@freedom.place> wrote in message
news:4066152D.6080103@freedom.place...
> Aggressively conforming Blacks being members of the
> non-mainstream are likely to go overboard and
> assimulate to well, where acedemic staff look for
> nuance and novelty in high acceivers those who
> 'try to hard' never pickup enough skepticism
> nor invest time in accepted non-conformistic
> mainstream culture. No, e.g black goths, etc.
>
> On a more general note, one reason why many minorities,
> IMHO, remain at the bottom of the rungs in societies
> is they accept the mainstrean notions that religion
> is good for them, when in fact scientific thinking,
> liberalism, skeptiscism, moderation and fighting
> the right battles whilst conforming on others is
> being taught to the sons and daugthers of mainstream
> 'white' society. Like most who miss out they get
> their proportions wrong, thinking to heavily about
> things they can't change (religion) and not enough
> about what they can (and become power players in
> society). You can tell Blacks will not progress
> when their leaders are preists, hispanics are likely
> to leap frog blacks in the next coming decades
> much like asians (As long as they ditch one-god
> religious conformism, catholicism did have 1,000
> dark years to perfect the art of keeping the masses
> stupid, complacent and unquestioning).
>
> Gene Aldrich wrote:
> > Strange how 'blind' grading separates the sheep from the goats. 'Brown
and
> > other black students said the emphasis on grades was troublesome.'
Perhaps
> > it's because they were admitted to the school under affirmative action
> > policies and therefore cannot compete with other students. Should the
> > selections have been made on their ability to shoot baskets? Maybe
black
> > freshmen are shocked to discover that law journals are not written in
> > ebonics. On second thought I think the suggestion that the black
students
> > start their own law review journals is excellent-it will prepare them to
be
> > members of the black caucus, the black journalists and all the other
> > exclusionary black groups, which is a heck of a lot easier than rising
to
> > the standards.
> >
> >
> > Black law students protest unusual exclusion
> >
> > By MICHAEL CASS
> > Staff Writer
> >
> > VU group's 0% T-shirts reflect recent participation on law journals
> >
> > The T-shirts expressed the problem in simple, black-and-white terms:
''0%.''
> >
> > As students who have been admitted to this fall's class at Vanderbilt
> > University Law School visited the campus yesterday, a group of current
> > African-American students drew attention to a strange - and not so
> > black-and-white - disparity.
> >
> > While about 13% of the law school's students are black, none of those
> > students has been selected for at least the past two years to work on
any of
> > the school's three student-run law journals, including the most
prestigious,
> > the Vanderbilt Law Review. The numbers weren't much higher in previous
> > years.
> >
> > The reasons for the black students' exclusion are mysterious. The
journals,
> > which publish scholarly articles on legal issues, add about 90 students
each
> > year based on grades and writing samples. Judges don't know whose
writing
> > they're reading, and administrators say outside experts have found that
> > there's no racial bias in the writing assignment. Professors grade their
> > students' work ''blindly'' as well.
> >
> > Kyonzte Hughes, a third-year student from Hammond, La., and president of
> > Vanderbilt's Black Law Students Association, says some black students do
> > very well academically, while some journal participants from other
racial
> > and ethnic groups don't.
> >
> > But it's the school's black population that has been coming up empty on
one
> > of the best extracurricular experiences a law student can have.
> >
> > ''Vanderbilt has one of the largest populations of black law students,''
> > said Damon Brown, a black third-year student from Los Angeles who led
> > yesterday's protest, though he said he did not apply to work on any of
the
> > journals because of a death in his family two years ago.
> >
> > ''There's a misconception that black students are here and having access
to
> > all these things when they're not,'' said Brown, president of the
school's
> > Thurgood Marshall Legal Activist Society. ''A lot of us came here
thinking
> > the door was wide open.''
> >
> > The situation may change soon. Student groups, journal editors and
> > professors are working on potential solutions. Vanderbilt's law faculty,
> > which opened up more journal positions for second-year students in
December,
> > plans to look at the requirements for first-year students on April 8.
That
> > will allow enough time to implement changes by the end of this academic
> > year, when each publication will select another group of staffers, Dean
Kent
> > Syverud said.
> >
> > ''It's been a tough issue for three years,'' Syverud said. ''I respect
> > terrifically the students for their patience and civility. And I don't
> > expect that patience to last forever. We're really focused on addressing
the
> > matter fairly this year.''
> >
> > Brown and other black students said the emphasis on grades was
troublesome,
> > though they said they haven't been able to get any grading breakdowns
from
> > the school that would help them explore how African-Americans are
stacking
> > up. They said journal selections should be based on students' abilities
to
> > make intelligent, persuasive legal arguments in writing rather than on
their
> > performances on final exams.
> >
> > ''It's a publication, and that's what we need to focus on,'' said Vinita
> > Voss, a third-year student who tried out for the journals at the end of
her
> > first and second years.
> >
> > Syverud said he expected the faculty to move toward a greater emphasis
on
> > writing, as well as toward a more thorough student orientation on the
> > competition. He said he didn't expect any of the journals to set places
> > aside based on race alone and that he doubted there would be much
support
> > for that direction.
> >
> > Student editors of the three law journals declined to be interviewed in
> > person or on the phone. But Hughes said she was pleased with each
journal's
> > proposal. All three publications have suggested filling some positions
based
> > on writing samples alone, while others would be decided by grades or a
> > combination of grades and writing, Hughes said.
> >
> > ''There seems to be hope that these proposals will result in more
> > African-Americans getting on the journal staffs,'' Hughes said. ''We're
> > hoping the faculty will just leave it up to the students.''
> >
> > Along with the Vanderbilt Law Review, the student-run publications are
the
> > Vanderbilt Journal of Transnational Law and the Vanderbilt Journal of
> > Entertainment Law & Practice.
> >
> > It was difficult to judge the prospective law students' reactions to
> > yesterday's protest first-hand. Vanderbilt officials would not allow The
> > Tennessean to join students in the law school lobby, explaining that the
> > presence of reporters and photographers would be disruptive.
> >
> > Brown said several students he talked with said they were ''shocked'' by
the
> > situation.
> >
> > Raven Winters, a first-year student preparing to compete for a journal
> > position, said she was concerned about her chances.
> >
> > ''My grades are good,'' Winters said. ''So are most of ours. But they
were
> > in the past, too.''
> >
> > Hughes, a recent student who didn't make it, said she would have enjoyed
the
> > chance to write and edit publishable ''notes,'' as students and
professors
> > call the journal articles. And the experience, though not essential to
> > becoming a successful, practicing attorney - fewer than half of
Vanderbilt
> > law students are selected - would have added gloss to her resume.
> >
> > ''It's a big advantage when you're trying for jobs,'' Hughes said. ''I
> > wouldn't necessarily call it an important part of the law school
experience.
> > But I've missed out on an opportunity I think I deserved to have.''
> >
> >
> >
http://www.tennessean.com/education/archives/04/03/48913510.shtml?Elem..._ID=489
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
 >> Stay informed about: They'll be 'race-norming' the Bar Exam next 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Brain Size, IQ,race - http://www.cpa.ca/Psynopsis/petertxt.htm appears to be the latest review, and on reading it, I will back off on the Brain Size/IQ/race subject, pending more convincing results. Fortunately, Gould has been thoroughy identified as a charlatan based on..

Playing the race card in Saginaw - AP once again tries SO hard to make it appear to be all the fault of White folks. "I've never been trick-or-treating because my sisters when they tried to go, the people wouldn't open their doors for them." Yeah, Kwaneesha, ever hear of somet...

Jefferson opposed race-mixing - By Kevin Alfred Strom Jefferson's lifelong advocacy of racial separatism is well-documented and undeniable. He desired that all Blacks be returned to Africa or, in the interest of practicality, shipped to the island of Santo Domingo in the Caribbean....

Jihadi Professor Issue in FL Senate Race - Jihadi Professor Issue in FL Senate Race Fired professor plays key role in Senate ads by Mike Thomas Sami Al-Arian. Sound familiar? He is the alleged terrorist supporter at the center of the U.S. Senate race between Mel Martinez and Betty Castor...

New Jersey Court Rules: Race Mixing 'Imperative' - New Jersey State Court Rules Racial Mixing 'Imperative' News/Comment; Posted on: 2004-08-15 10:02:57 [ Printer friendly ] Denies civil rights of White parents; Forbids families to send children to better schools by Frederico Napolitano Our..
   Your Students Forum and Resource Site! (Home) -> Education General All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]